/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

I realised that this hasn't properly been discussed or clarified - so this'll be the thread, I guess. The whole point of this is to come to some sort of consensus to avoid confusion about the drones and their relationship with the silicons on the station.

It's simple: should drones regard the AI as part of the station, or as another 'being' (contrary to what a lot of the current rules and policies seem to imply), thus being unable to do anything about the AI itself if it's been damaged or whatnot (ie: return it to the core, move it if the core is depowering, stuff like that).

I didnt feel it was worth killing another player over at the time. I know you can get banned for doing it, and im not the kind of player that kills without good reason.

Alex Crimson wrote:I didnt feel it was worth killing another player over at the time. I know you can get banned for doing it, and im not the kind of player that kills without good reason.

Drones aren't players. Or, rather, drones are dead players that are trivial to get back into the round; Just print some more drones.

Alex Crimson wrote:I didnt feel it was worth killing another player over at the time. I know you can get banned for doing it, and im not the kind of player that kills without good reason.

The drone is interfering. Its laws specifically state not to interfere. If it breaks its laws, dunk it.

Better yet, pick him up, put him on your head for a second, and then put him into the disposal bin and quickly flush it.

Alex Crimson wrote:Tried to tell it to bugger off, but it wouldnt listen.

They can't hear you, its all garbled.

MrStonedOne wrote:

Alex Crimson wrote:Tried to tell it to bugger off, but it wouldnt listen.

They can't hear you, its all garbled.

Specifically, it can hear you, it just doesn't speak your language.

cedarbridge wrote:If it breaks its laws, dunk it.

This is a stupid solution. No one who tried to kill me as drone succeeded yet, unless I had like under 20% health. It's very easy to get away, with tablewalking, ventcrawling and all access.

MrStonedOne wrote:

Alex Crimson wrote:Tried to tell it to bugger off, but it wouldnt listen.

They can't hear you, its all garbled.

I am aware. But you do see some of the letters, so you can sometimes guess what the human was saying.

Not to mention that words with few letters have a significantly better chance of not only being understood, but sometimes it wouldn't be garbled at all. One time I heard a human say a word fully by accident.

Also someone could just get a crayon and write a long, obnoxious, sentence that way.

It's what used for anything that cannot understand the speaker. Nobody complained before.

And what's bad about writing obnoxious sentences? Today I wrote "IMPROVE MAINTAIN REPAIR" above bridge.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:If it breaks its laws, dunk it.

This is a stupid solution. No one who tried to kill me as drone succeeded yet, unless I had like under 20% health. It's very easy to get away, with tablewalking, ventcrawling and all access.

Which part of it is stupid, the part where you got the nusance out of your lab or something else?

cedarbridge wrote:Which part of it is stupid, the part where you got the nusance out of your lab or something else?

Presumably the part where a role designed for minimal interaction with players still in the round is requiring interaction from players still in the round.

Arete wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:Which part of it is stupid, the part where you got the nusance out of your lab or something else?

Presumably the part where a role designed for minimal interaction with players still in the round is requiring interaction from players still in the round.

Right, and obviously the drone is in the wrong for interfering in the first place. I'm just sayin, its easier just to toolbox the fucker while its messing with the console than start up an ahelp.

cedarbridge wrote: Which part of it is stupid, the part where you got the nusance out of your lab or something else?

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:No one who tried to kill me as drone succeeded yet, unless I had like under 20% health. It's very easy to get away, with tablewalking, ventcrawling and all access.

Read the whole post may be?

You don't need to kill it, leaving is actually pretty ideal.

Basically what I am saying it the drone must leave because it is interfering with the arc of your swings.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

cedarbridge wrote: Which part of it is stupid, the part where you got the nusance out of your lab or something else?

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:No one who tried to kill me as drone succeeded yet, unless I had like under 20% health. It's very easy to get away, with tablewalking, ventcrawling and all access.

Read the whole post may be?

I did read your post. Your survival isn't the matter in question. I want you to stop interfering with my console and my materials. I can thus attack you and chase you off. Toolboxes being the universal language, you fuck off. Message sent and received. Also, the drone should be getting a boink anyway for breaking its laws, but chasing them off IC serves both purposes without involving admins.

Since this thread seems to be more about Drones in general than Drones and Sillicons in particular, I'll just post this here.

What I'd like to know is if this:

elyina wrote:if a drone is trying to steal shit from you/your department or being a general nuisance, adminhelp it. a "being" is considered anything sentient that isn't a drone and also applies to dead bodies. we're going to be pretty no tolerance with job banning drones that break their laws.

Still applies? In barely a day (during highpop rounds), I've seen drones do the following:

• Drag a human in critical condition away from a hull breach
• Steal a hardsuit helmet
• Smash the Captain's antique laser gun case, setting off the alarm, and disposaling the gun
• Fakewall into the AI satellite foyer
• "Fix" the telecomms floor with the SMES blown, leaving the wiring broken up, so the APC would never charge

A few of these were adminhelped (with 5+ admins on), but it never lead to anything, so I'd like to know how much tolerance there is at the moment.

Along a similar vein, I'd like to know which of the following is the actual policy, when it comes to killing thieving drones (as a non-antag):

Psyentific wrote:Drones aren't players. Or, rather, drones are dead players that are trivial to get back into the round; Just print some more drones.

Or the alternative:

QuartzCrystal wrote:Headmin decision is that rule 1 applies to them, antags can kill em if they want just like with everyone else, but you're still removing someone from the round, potentially permanently depending on if there's a competent roboticist.

Braincake wrote:I've seen drones do the following:

• Drag a human in critical condition away from a hull breach
• Steal a hardsuit helmet
• Smash the Captain's antique laser gun case, setting off the alarm, and disposaling the gun
• Fakewall into the AI satellite foyer
• "Fix" the telecomms floor with the SMES blown, leaving the wiring broken up, so the APC would never charge

In order:
-Ahelp that shit.
-Bash him and take it back, or ahelp it if he's taking it off a person.
-Ahelp the fuck out of that
-Ahelp that one too, which I remember that one specifically and said drone was dealt with.
-"fix" the floor? Maybe he just doesn't know how to wire properly, in which case its still in a slightly better condition than it was while bombed. Or are you saying it cut the wires? If so, ahelp.

Generally I just gib the drone right out and remind him of the laws, next instance of being a shit they get a permanent jobban from drones.

Mostly just seen drones mess with simple mobs, like one snatched pets and put them in glass cases in engineering insisting they were "drones".

Saegrimr wrote:-Ahelp the fuck out of that
-Ahelp that one too, which I remember that one specifically and said drone was dealt with.

These two (Captain's laser and AI foyer) were very close to eachother and ahelped together. There was never any feedback though, but I'm glad these at least were resolved.

Saegrimr wrote:-Bash him and take it back, or ahelp it if he's taking it off a person.

Referring to my second question, this means bashing a drone when it's stealing things (while not breaking its laws) is acceptable, even as non-antag?

I'm sorry if I'm nitpicking here, but thieving drones have been getting on my nerves, and being allowed to bash them without having to consider the little annoying wannabe-sillicons feelings would be a major improvement, in my opinion.

Braincake wrote:There was never any feedback though, but I'm glad these at least were resolved.

Sorry, sometimes things like that are straightforward enough that I forget to get back to the person who ahelped initially.

Braincake wrote:Referring to my second question, this means bashing a drone when it's stealing things (while not breaking its laws) is acceptable, even as non-antag?

Right, while it'd be a dick move (hence rule 1) to just go and hunt the little guys down specifically to bash them for their tools/equipment, if they're being little turds stealing all your stuff or ripping up the everything, feel free to drop em. Actually, they can understand human speech now too so telling them to fuck off should be enough sometimes.

The problem here is most of the times things that would make people want to kill them are also things that probably break their laws and should be ahelped.

Saegrimr wrote:

Braincake wrote:There was never any feedback though, but I'm glad these at least were resolved.

Sorry, sometimes things like that are straightforward enough that I forget to get back to the person who ahelped initially.

Braincake wrote:Referring to my second question, this means bashing a drone when it's stealing things (while not breaking its laws) is acceptable, even as non-antag?

Right, while it'd be a dick move (hence rule 1) to just go and hunt the little guys down specifically to bash them for their tools/equipment, if they're being little turds stealing all your stuff or ripping up the everything, feel free to drop em. Actually, they can understand human speech now too so telling them to fuck off should be enough sometimes.

The problem here is most of the times things that would make people want to kill them are also things that probably break their laws and should be ahelped.

Drones don't 100% understand speech. The hearing radius for non-dronespeak is very small.

I actually wonder if it would be possible to make Drones unable to see mobs except other drones.
I know it IS possible to make it so that the drone can only see itself, but they probably should be able to see each other .

Malkevin wrote:I actually wonder if it would be possible to make Drones unable to see mobs except other drones.
I know it IS possible to make it so that the drone can only see itself, but they probably should be able to see each other .

How can I avoid interfering with something I cannot see? Drones would just cause more trouble because they can never see anyone in R&D so they'd just sit there fucking around with the console with no idea visually that anyone is there to complain.

cedarbridge wrote:

Malkevin wrote:I actually wonder if it would be possible to make Drones unable to see mobs except other drones.
I know it IS possible to make it so that the drone can only see itself, but they probably should be able to see each other .

How can I avoid interfering with something I cannot see? Drones would just cause more trouble because they can never see anyone in R&D so they'd just sit there fucking around with the console with no idea visually that anyone is there to complain.

IMO Drones shouldn't be allowed to do things like that in the first place. A drone running up to the console to print a bag of holding or something for itself should be receiving a warning or some such.

You're a simple mob whose job is to skitter around the station fixing damages and providing a bit of flavor and ambience for other players. You shouldn't be trying to powergame being a drone by getting a BoH and looting tech storage or whatever. You've overstepped the scope of what these things were originally intended to be: dumb little things that skitter around fixing holes and staying out of the way.

Resource points are generated by players, so in effect you're stealing from them everytime you use the console to print something. That's interfering.

I like to think it's obvious when the powergaming crosses the line of "GOTTA GET MY DRONE BOH"

Don't deprive the station's crew of anything they can't easily replace.

Drones should get their own Drone Hole in a dark, sealed off, remote area of the station.
Only way in or out is through the air vent.

It'll have its own RD console, protolathe, circuit printer, and exofab (or a drone fab that can only make new drones)

Or at the very least a Drone room with basic supplies that lets Drones actually get some stuff instead of looting other departments.

Malkevin wrote:Drones should get their own Drone Hole in a dark, sealed off, remote area of the station.
Only way in or out is through the air vent.

It'll have its own RD console, protolathe, circuit printer, and exofab (or a drone fab that can only make new drones)

I usually build one of those nests with the low quality modular parts laying around R&D. The hardest part is always building the vent from the nest (usually in space attached to the station) because atmos generally gets upset if the dispenser is moved and carrying enough pipes to set up the vent is tough to do manually.

I think pipes have fit in backpacks for a while now

Malkevin wrote:I think pipes have fit in backpacks for a while now

They do, but I tend to build about 8+ tiles away from the main station body. That's a lot of trips to atmos.

See, if MoMMIs had been ported instead of this snowflake gotta-be-"original" drone business, you'd have RPDs and internal tools and thus no issues with needing a BoH to carry your shit.

If they were ported borgs would be useless, drones aren't as specialized as borgs and can't interfere with shit like borgs can.

I think you mean interface, only machines they cant interact with are things that you need to swipe your id on - namely apc and air alarm control panels, which are two things they really could do with having access to.

Malkevin wrote:I think you mean interface, only machines they cant interact with are things that you need to swipe your id on - namely apc and air alarm control panels, which are two things they really could do with having access to.

Most drones do it the way I always did in science. Hack the wires.