/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Imagine readying up to play a game of paranoia-laden roleplaying game set against the backdrop of a nonsensical, metal death trap masquerading as a space station, only to find out that you have been tricked into playing a round of extended with no paranoia to be had, no mysteries to be solved and no antags to be dealt with. You are trapped with just the tiders and have next to no purpose for the reminder of the round.

Why is Secret Extended still a thing? At least with the regular Extended one can instantly tune out after it is announced within 5 minutes of the game.

Thoughts?

The problem is that sec doesn't care about the sop on normal rounds either

Then like I said, maybe enforcing those standards needs to be something that's done more often. Just enforcing the rules and standards we already have in place more often would make a shockingly positive difference to this community.

deedubya wrote:Honestly, rather than entertain the idea of removing Secret Extended, we should add in Fake Extended as well, if we don't already have it.(I don't recall seeing it) Maybe it'd teach people to stop treating extended as a fucking tider's free for all, and maybe bring higher RP standards as SOP starts getting enforced. I bet 95% of the playerbase don't even know what the fuck SOP even is.

tl;dr on fake extended: It's a green alert shift, and all SGs are available, but traitors are still rolled as though it were a secret round.

This is a mentally challenged idea. Yog forces SOP to the point, where security players get punished yet non-security can do as they please.

>be antag, random borg validhunts (which is against the rules on yog) - a ok
>be antag, random botanist beats me to death - a ok
>be solo security as a detective, spend 30+ minutes doing forensics etc, capture a guy with full 20TC in his inventory + SM steal kit, shoot him in the head - banned for 3 days, k, never again

Handling an assistant "tiding" and giving them a 1 minute sentence, which by the way is usually the same amount it takes to search them, is pointless. In essence you have wasted 1 minute + the time it took to catch that assistant, while the assistant spent all the time "tiding" and will continue to "tide", because the next time he is caught it will be the same 1 minute again. If Space Law had 3 strike system - 3rd time you are caught for whatever crime, you can be treated as an antag to the fullest extent, only then would be playing Extended or Secret Extended make sense for security. Otherwise its "getting griefed as sec" or "getting griefed as sec, but you don't know it until like 30 minutes into the game" gamemode.

give them 100 points in the gulag then :smug:

space law is a suggestion

Istoprocent1 wrote:

deedubya wrote:Honestly, rather than entertain the idea of removing Secret Extended, we should add in Fake Extended as well, if we don't already have it.(I don't recall seeing it) Maybe it'd teach people to stop treating extended as a fucking tider's free for all, and maybe bring higher RP standards as SOP starts getting enforced. I bet 95% of the playerbase don't even know what the fuck SOP even is.

tl;dr on fake extended: It's a green alert shift, and all SGs are available, but traitors are still rolled as though it were a secret round.

This is a mentally challenged idea. Yog forces SOP to the point, where security players get punished yet non-security can do as they please.

>be antag, random borg validhunts (which is against the rules on yog) - a ok
>be antag, random botanist beats me to death - a ok
>be solo security as a detective, spend 30+ minutes doing forensics etc, capture a guy with full 20TC in his inventory + SM steal kit, shoot him in the head - banned for 3 days, k, never again

Handling an assistant "tiding" and giving them a 1 minute sentence, which by the way is usually the same amount it takes to search them, is pointless. In essence you have wasted 1 minute + the time it took to catch that assistant, while the assistant spent all the time "tiding" and will continue to "tide", because the next time he is caught it will be the same 1 minute again. If Space Law had 3 strike system - 3rd time you are caught for whatever crime, you can be treated as an antag to the fullest extent, only then would be playing Extended or Secret Extended make sense for security. Otherwise its "getting griefed as sec" or "getting griefed as sec, but you don't know it until like 30 minutes into the game" gamemode.

SOP =/= Space Law. Thanks for proving my point, 95 percenter.

Also, you're aware that even under Space Law, you're allowed to escalate sentences for repeat offenders, correct? If you have to keep arresting the same tiding shitter repeatedly, you're well within your right to escalate to capital punishment.

also maybe we should be punishing assisatants for tiding and validhunting as well, not just security

The fuck is SOP.

Don't just go "I bet 95% of people don't know what SOP is" when the abbreviation isn't explained anywhere in this thread.

standard operating procedure
he means acting like an irl cop

It's not only a wiki page, but also literally spelled out for you every time the alert level changes.

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Standard_O ... _Procedure

deedubya wrote:Honestly, rather than entertain the idea of removing Secret Extended, we should add in Fake Extended as well, if we don't already have it.(I don't recall seeing it) Maybe it'd teach people to stop treating extended as a fucking tider's free for all, and maybe bring higher RP standards as SOP starts getting enforced. I bet 95% of the playerbase don't even know what the fuck SOP even is.

tl;dr on fake extended: It's a green alert shift, and all SGs are available, but traitors are still rolled as though it were a secret round.

That's a bad idea because it destroys the main reason for announced extended: to know that you can finally do the long-term project you never bothered to start on secret rounds. Considering you're still not guaranteed to be safe since some admins see announced extended as a green light to push buttons, adding fake extended on top of it would just be annoying as hell.

teepeepee wrote:standard operating procedure
he means acting like an irl cop

I am all for giving traitors a bit more leniency and not executing them at the first sign of smoking a syndi cigarette, but the way some other servers handle SOP is just idiotic.

I got jobbanned on yog ages ago because I bucklecuffed someone in the brig while a malf AI set the station on fire, shocked all the doors and I was getting shot at by rogue secborgs.

Handling an assistant "tiding" and giving them a 1 minute sentence, which by the way is usually the same amount it takes to search them, is pointless. In essence you have wasted 1 minute + the time it took to catch that assistant, while the assistant spent all the time "tiding" and will continue to "tide", because the next time he is caught it will be the same 1 minute again. If Space Law had 3 strike system - 3rd time you are caught for whatever crime, you can be treated as an antag to the fullest extent, only then would be playing Extended or Secret Extended make sense for security. Otherwise its "getting griefed as sec" or "getting griefed as sec, but you don't know it until like 30 minutes into the game" gamemode.

Dude, going 3 strikes out is fine, I do it all the time. Usually for minor shittery I just confiscate harmful/stolen items and stuff used for breaking and entering. Second strike I send them to the gulag for some moderate amount of points. Third strike I put them in perma or go bowling with their head.

deedubya wrote:SOP =/= Space Law. Thanks for proving my point, 95 percenter.

Ok boomer. There is a SOP for brigging in the Space Law itself as well as the addendum in its own article.

Grazyn wrote:

deedubya wrote:Honestly, rather than entertain the idea of removing Secret Extended, we should add in Fake Extended as well, if we don't already have it.(I don't recall seeing it) Maybe it'd teach people to stop treating extended as a fucking tider's free for all, and maybe bring higher RP standards as SOP starts getting enforced. I bet 95% of the playerbase don't even know what the fuck SOP even is.

tl;dr on fake extended: It's a green alert shift, and all SGs are available, but traitors are still rolled as though it were a secret round.

That's a bad idea because it destroys the main reason for announced extended: to know that you can finally do the long-term project you never bothered to start on secret rounds. Considering you're still not guaranteed to be safe since some admins see announced extended as a green light to push buttons, adding fake extended on top of it would just be annoying as hell.

That's the entire point. The possibility of shit happening to muck up your perfect plan is part of the game. Players relying on the (possibly incorrect) information given to them and acting accordingly rather than relying on the meta-info of "well there MIGHT be an antag so I won't even play properly" is how the game is supposed to be played. It seems this fact is lost on a lot of people these days.

deedubya wrote:That's the entire point. The possibility of shit happening to muck up your perfect plan is part of the game. Players relying on the (possibly incorrect) information given to them and acting accordingly rather than relying on the meta-info of "well there MIGHT be an antag so I won't even play properly" is how the game is supposed to be played. It seems this fact is lost on a lot of people these days.

For the record, I agree that dynamic being in the rotation is a good thing. Mostly because of that very reason. Partly because it's fun on occasion to have the wham bam fuckfest of 4 different antag types in the same round.

deedubya is secretly a JIDF agent that advocates for change even though he doesn't really play the game

Tarchonvaagh wrote:The problem is that sec doesn't care about the sop on normal rounds either

What sop?

off topic but this thread is dumb anyway, I find i have more fun as sec when I follow SOP

course if you have actual threats going on you don't have the liberty of caring about that shit

pugie wrote:

Tarchonvaagh wrote:The problem is that sec doesn't care about the sop on normal rounds either

What sop?

suck oral penis
standard operating procedure

This thread is a very long way of saying "I want to play on Hippie Station but on tg"

Rustledjimm wrote:This thread is a very long way of saying "I want to play on Hippie Station but on tg"

This could be turned around and said that if the active elements from the game are removed somebody wants to play minecraft, but on SS13 and so on.

Think about it in reverse. What if there was a gamemode called Extended Secret - there will be an announcement that the round is going to play out as Extended, but in reality there are active threats from tots to nukeops. Now a minecraft player who is like "yes, i get 60+ minutes to do my autism project without any threats signs up to play the game", but the round ends 10 minutes in because wizard was slain or revs/heads got rekt. How many false rounds would it take for the minecraft player to get unhappy?

I am completely fine with Extended rounds if they are called out at the beginning and I know that "hey, now I can do my autism projects as well instead of focusing on being sec in a round, where nothing but tiding happens".

That's called fake extended and I'd love to see it get added.

deedubya wrote:That's called fake extended and I'd love to see it get added.

Only thing we need is Dynamic to circumvent any metagame and a regular Extended to unwind from hi-octane action of Dynamic. The less fake gamemodes there are the better.

Can we please remove this already? I know the concept is to bazinga paranoia or something, but the reality is just that half the crew have no purpose on extended.

I just played another hour of secret extended AI and it is the most boring thing ever.

Again I still feels more like a problem of your play style than a game mode issue.
A fair few rounds have been run very successfully on Manuel as secret extended with only random events being thrown in as normal.

Maybe the solution is to take it off certain servers. Or if you really had extended that much go play on Terry where is 24/7 dynamic, you'll never see a "dull" round again. Good luck with that.

peoplearestrange wrote:Again I still feels more like a problem of your play style than a game mode issue.
A fair few rounds have been run very successfully on Manuel as secret extended with only random events being thrown in as normal.

Maybe the solution is to take it off certain servers. Or if you really had extended that much go play on Terry where is 24/7 dynamic, you'll never see a "dull" round again. Good luck with that.

It is not a problem of my playstyle, it is a problem of the job design.

There isn't much the AI can do when all is well for example.

peoplearestrange wrote:Again I still feels more like a problem of your play style than a game mode issue.
A fair few rounds have been run very successfully on Manuel as secret extended with only random events being thrown in as normal.

Maybe the solution is to take it off certain servers. Or if you really had extended that much go play on Terry where is 24/7 dynamic, you'll never see a "dull" round again. Good luck with that.

I played a secret extended round on Manuel and it was absolute cancer. Absolutely nothing at all happened in 90 min before i decided to disconnect. We had two patients in medbay in 90 min for minor injuries. One of the worst experiences playing the game i've had recently.

The game doesn't work without any chance of conflict. There weren't even any greytiders or workplace conflict to drive the round.

Kryson wrote:

peoplearestrange wrote:Again I still feels more like a problem of your play style than a game mode issue.
A fair few rounds have been run very successfully on Manuel as secret extended with only random events being thrown in as normal.

Maybe the solution is to take it off certain servers. Or if you really had extended that much go play on Terry where is 24/7 dynamic, you'll never see a "dull" round again. Good luck with that.

I played a secret extended round on Manuel and it was absolute cancer. Absolutely nothing at all happened in 90 min before i decided to disconnect. We had two patients in medbay in 90 min for minor injuries. One of the worst experiences playing the game i've had recently.

The game doesn't work without any chance of conflict. There weren't even any greytiders or workplace conflict to drive the round.

it depends on your job, what you decide to do during that downtime, and if there's any admins on

Changed my mind fuck sextended

I think the problem is less with extended itself and more with a general lack of stuff to do during downtime from the action. Nearly everything that goes on in game is driven in one way or another by antags, so it makes sense that removing them makes the game feel pretty incomplete. So how to solve this? More minor stuff, more minor situations that require player interaction- have a station that can feel fun to play on for two hours with no major conflict, and suddenly extended will be more enjoyable.

Screemonster wrote:secret extended is a massive fuckin' shitter-detector though 'cause any admins observing know damn well that none of the unfolding chaos was sparked by antags stirring the pot

Secret extended always had the worst fucking tickets.

this just feels like somebody got really mad that they cant kill antag, some of the most enjoyable rounds for me were sekrit extended
probably doesnt work on manuel though because fucking nothing happens there anyways

Tarchonvaagh wrote:Changed my mind fuck sextended

Attaboi, you have seen the truth.

saprasam wrote:this just feels like somebody got really mad that they cant kill antag, some of the most enjoyable rounds for me were sekrit extended
probably doesnt work on manuel though because fucking nothing happens there anyways

Actually only a couple days ago there was a ton of paranoia over a fake cult on manuel, so much so that the shuttle was called.

cybersaber101 wrote:

saprasam wrote:this just feels like somebody got really mad that they cant kill antag, some of the most enjoyable rounds for me were sekrit extended
probably doesnt work on manuel though because fucking nothing happens there anyways

Actually only a couple days ago there was a ton of paranoia over a fake cult on manuel, so much so that the shuttle was called.

Make Secret Extended 24/7 on Manuel then and leave other servers alone?

please dont

We have no interest in disabling secret extended.

Headmin votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Do not disable.
Phuzzylodgik: Do not disable.
TWATICUS: Do not disable.