/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

As it has been stated many times by the maintainer team “We code for MRP and accidentally code for HRP on occasion” and “We don’t balance features around bad faith players.” It does not make sense to me to continue having massive policy differences between each server when the codebase (Excluding configuration) are exactly the same for the entire community. Logically, We should strive to have as much parity between our servers and our community as possible. We have hugbox servers with metagangs like Manuel, and racial slur screaming hyper gamer NRPers on terry where murderbone and round removal are common. We should raise the rule standards on LRP actually have RP on them, and besides for the Manuel culture the ruleset is something strive worthy.

thomanthewise5404 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:45 pm i dont think ive ever finished a full round on manuel because its such an absolute snoozefest that i suicide or close the game before the round is finished, not sure why you would want this on every server

To peanut post on my own thread, I’ve only been in one shift of Manuel, and I was snubbed by the metagangs at every chance when I tried to RP with them, so ideally if my proposal happens, Manuel would drop it’s hate for outsiders.

tgstation started as a medium roleplay server and was listed by the goons on spacestation13 for ages as medium roleplay until someone updated it out of spite.

Given that our ruleset has not changed in any serious material ways since then I see no reason to consider our servers anything other than medium roleplay servers and no amount of LRP players flooding in from the hub and dying LRP servers will change my mind otherwise.

manuel is as far as i'm concerned a high roleplay environment with a very restrictive ruleset.

Anyone who thinks tgstation is an LRP server like hippie has a demented head and will find themselves violently alienated by changes that I would approve.

Honestly, I don't know what you all are doing that you have so much trouble RPing with people on Manuel. I drop in (very) occasionally

Like REALLY rarely

But I've never had trouble having normal-ass RP with anyone I felt like talking to while I was there.

oranges wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:36 am tgstation started as a medium roleplay server and was listed by the goons on spacestation13 for ages as medium roleplay until someone updated it out of spite.

Given that our ruleset has not changed in any serious material ways since then I see no reason to consider our servers anything other than medium roleplay servers and no amount of LRP players flooding in from the hub and dying LRP servers will change my mind otherwise.

manuel is as far as i'm concerned a high roleplay environment with a very restrictive ruleset.

Anyone who thinks tgstation is an LRP server like hippie has a demented head and will find themselves violently alienated by changes that I would approve.

If manuel is HRP the rules and code should respect this, no? They currently do not.

the rules on manuel are high roleplay rules, the code remains medium roleplay targeted because there was no desire among leading individuals to make a high roleplay specific codebase and it provides enough of a framework where rules can do the rest.

Oranges is unfortunately correct.

Its not oranges who has changed

It is the world and the standards of old no longer apply to the standards of new.

I think this is an interesting topic seeing how I've been putting my playtime into other servers after what's gone down on tg in the past few years.

The feeling of NRP in what should be LRP, I think, stems from a shitter minority more than the server as a whole. These actors influence the whole to essentially join in and set the tone, since most people aren't confident enough/have the initiative to report behavior that violates rule 1.

Their behavior is usually something like this: Harass everyone that they think they can get away with harassing until someone becomes frustrated, retaliates and the situation splits into two forks: 1) They robust you and now it's justified, they've completely fucked your shift up like it's Hippie without technically breaking the "hard rules". 2) You robust them and they ahelp immediately.

It is up to the players to encourage and stand by reporting rule 1 violations. As for admins, the ball is then in their court to begin enforcement when someone collects enough rule 1 violations. There are not enough eyes and hands to have some kind of autonomous admin police state where the line is consistently and accurately drawn. Encouraging more reporting that might feel like the start of people crying over things that are IC issues only / give a larger admin workload, but that's the nature of the beast. Documentation is your friend.

Also Manuel always being over player limit is very telling that there is a stronger desire for RP, rather than winding up in an 'epic ss13 moment' on some terry staticnames YT.

But you still want a station like Terry for the days where you want to be 'Hugh Jackoff' and set AI laws to invest in assistant butthole NFTs. Magic like this can only happen on true LRP and it'd be a shame to wash that away for the sake of solving something that wasn't even an LRP problem in the first place.

tl;dr We want you to report all rule 1 violations instead of deleting LRP.

YBS wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:03 am I think this is an interesting topic seeing how I've been putting my playtime into other servers after what's gone down on tg in the past few years.

The feeling of NRP in what should be LRP, I think, stems from a shitter minority more than the server as a whole. These actors influence the whole to essentially join in and set the tone, since most people aren't confident enough/have the initiative to report behavior that violates rule 1.

Their behavior is usually something like this: Harass everyone that they think they can get away with harassing until someone becomes frustrated, retaliates and the situation splits into two forks: 1) They robust you and now it's justified, they've completely fucked your shift up like it's Hippie without technically breaking the "hard rules". 2) You robust them and they ahelp immediately.

The 2) doesn’t happen because that’s banbait.
In 1) they have to make minimal effort to get you revived if they arent antag.
If no conflicts happen with escalation, the round becomes a fucking snoozefest if there isn’t a competent antagonist who can take on the entirety of security, cargo and tiders by themselves.

Flatulent wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:29 am

YBS wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:03 am I think this is an interesting topic seeing how I've been putting my playtime into other servers after what's gone down on tg in the past few years.

The feeling of NRP in what should be LRP, I think, stems from a shitter minority more than the server as a whole. These actors influence the whole to essentially join in and set the tone, since most people aren't confident enough/have the initiative to report behavior that violates rule 1.

Their behavior is usually something like this: Harass everyone that they think they can get away with harassing until someone becomes frustrated, retaliates and the situation splits into two forks: 1) They robust you and now it's justified, they've completely fucked your shift up like it's Hippie without technically breaking the "hard rules". 2) You robust them and they ahelp immediately.

The 2) doesn’t happen because that’s banbait.
In 1) they have to make minimal effort to get you revived if they arent antag.
If no conflicts happen with escalation, the round becomes a fucking snoozefest if there isn’t a competent antagonist who can take on the entirety of security, cargo and tiders by themselves.

Tiders shouldn’t be part of that system, that’s part of the problem. Tiders act as soft antagonists and generally go unpunished because muh lrp. They’re bad faith actors end of the day, and part of the reason the divide between the two halves of our community keep getting wider. If I have to choose between Bubbles biggum, or whoever is the person who wants to remove all the antagonists from Manuel, I’m gonna choose neither

Raising the LRP standards wouldn’t fix the issue of community fracture by itself, the rules of Manuel would have to be relaxed slightly too, but it could be done

We are one community, and we need to act like it for the health of the game

The 2) doesn’t happen because that’s banbait.
In 1) they have to make minimal effort to get you revived if they arent antag.
If no conflicts happen with escalation, the round becomes a fucking snoozefest if there isn’t a competent antagonist who can take on the entirety of security, cargo and tiders by themselves.

If you have been playing here more than ~50 hours and have never seen soft banbait happen around you/to you then maybe you're part of the problem. I have had plenty of admin conversations where the person who got me bwoinked reported me and tried to gaslight the current admin that there was no escalation. It happens all the time and if your communication skills aren't on point it can even catch you a ban that makes you register here and appeal. If you've never seen this either, then you've never read FNR. Saying it doesn't happen is just objectively wrong. I lol'd.

And I am NOT SAYING that conflict escalation shouldn't happen. Escalation is flavor. It's the people who swarm apartments, shove/table/rob or even put people into crit while taking their meta loadout for future validhunting. Then when this is called out as shitty behavior, it's suddenly 'hey bro you dont want boring rounds do you we're spicing it up'. Meanwhile IN REALITY, you have a handful of greytide who are powerplaying, harassing departments, accruing their meta arsenal then immediately moving to snuff out antagonists before they even get started. There are countless rounds where Gary Greyshirt goes 'found tot hes dead lol' and it's the same gasmask/insuls assistant who will scream his fucking head off if anyone even steps in the way of their When you think you're spicing up a round, ask yourself 'who is this fun for?' If the answer is just you, you've shit on Rule 1 and you want to justify it however you can.

Examples of good LRP escalation that aren't dogshit:

-AI Law shenanigans
-Grouped rebellion against shitsec
-Departments claiming independence
-Ganging

I'd be fine with assistants all wearing the same color of bandana and THEN hassling departments for shit, at least that feels like something is happening versus one guy having his power fantasy.

tl;dr bitch dont gaslight me we all know how bad it is

I don't know anything about Baystation nowadays, but back in the day it was the poster child for HRP. The meme about Baystation was that you would get adminPM'd for running in the halls. Which was true. It was the kind of place where any action had to be acted out through a combination of dialogue and emotes before you could do it, including combat. This reduced the game to a turn-based and text-based one that focused more on creating an interesting story for the participants than on skill or winning. They also had an extremely punishing atmospherics system (ZAS) that threw you across the room and badly injured you during a breach and a deep medical system that many people on /tg/station wanted ported over before ours was changed to be like it is today. That's what HRP is like, not Manuel.

Escalation rules have been changed, I think it fits this topic: viewtopic.php?p=627657#p627657

I would like to see a version of that rule as no "overdone" power gaming, as in you can't get bwoinked for rushing tool belt and gloves round but if you go straight for AA and armory that would be a rule break for example

Right now that's only a thing if it's a consistent behavior, which i also like


Also the base your whole ass argument stands on is "coders code for MRP and sometimes HRP" lmao

Just so you know, none of these rules are really upheld on manuel.

YBS wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:03 amThe feeling of NRP in what should be LRP, I think, stems from a shitter minority more than the server as a whole. These actors influence the whole to essentially join in and set the tone, since most people aren't confident enough/have the initiative to report behavior that violates rule 1.

But you still want a station like Terry for the days where you want to be 'Hugh Jackoff' and set AI laws to invest in assistant butthole NFTs. Magic like this can only happen on true LRP and it'd be a shame to wash that away for the sake of solving something that wasn't even an LRP problem in the first place.

this is kind of where im at tbh

space station 13 will always be to me the game where a bunch of useless assholes try to find peace on a station where a clown is throwing pies everywhere, space wizards are making peoples asses explode, a bunch of nuclear idiots show up only to kill themselves comically, science unleashes a horde of memes on the unsuspecting populace and gross incompetence results in shitposty hilarity

but at the same time i absolutely agree that trying to reduce some of the norp would be better in the long run, and that manuel is a great thing to have for people who want to have proper mrp

basically i support cutting down on tiding and norp but i dont want every server to become as serious as manuel

Timonk wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:29 am I would like to see a version of that rule as no "overdone" power gaming, as in you can't get bwoinked for rushing tool belt and gloves round but if you go straight for AA and armory that would be a rule break for example

Right now that's only a thing if it's a consistent behavior, which i also like


Also the base your whole ass argument stands on is "coders code for MRP and sometimes HRP" lmao

This (except rushing AA was also fine) pretty much hits the golden age when I adminned.

WHEN I

WAS

YOUR AGE

It was pretty annoying when i had to behead disposals travelers round start in my office as captain

Timonk wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:34 am It was pretty annoying when i had to behead disposals travelers round start in my office as captain

I love traveling disposals.

disposal assistant AA rush was funny and so was sec rushing every round into cap office to get the locker with hand teleporter
you just have poor sense of humour

YBS wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:38 pm

The 2) doesn’t happen because that’s banbait.
In 1) they have to make minimal effort to get you revived if they arent antag.
If no conflicts happen with escalation, the round becomes a fucking snoozefest if there isn’t a competent antagonist who can take on the entirety of security, cargo and tiders by themselves.

If you have been playing here more than ~50 hours and have never seen soft banbait happen around you/to you then maybe you're part of the problem. I have had plenty of admin conversations where the person who got me bwoinked reported me and tried to gaslight the current admin that there was no escalation. It happens all the time and if your communication skills aren't on point it can even catch you a ban that makes you register here and appeal. If you've never seen this either, then you've never read FNR. Saying it doesn't happen is just objectively wrong.

tl;dr bitch dont gaslight me we all know how bad it is

If admins already have trouble enforcing current rules, why do you think they’ll manage enforcing these new rules without driving off the cliff of adminshittery?
There is no ‘soft’ banbait, it’s nature is binary by design. It’s either 100% banbait or no banbait, with problems of interpretation in-between.
Ive read fnr, and i’ve seen these bans and i wholeheartedly believe that admins are to blame for being shit at enforcing the rules. Before making up that players should fit the arbitrary standards you’re completely pulling from collective ass of the administration, admins should consider starting to fit their own standards themselves.

We have no intention to raise the roleplay level of our standard servers to the same level as our roleplay servers, we think it would be best to preserve two different styles of gameplay for differing playerbases.

Headmin Votes:
NamelessFairy: Agree
Dragomagol: Agree
RaveRadbury: Agree