/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Press yes if you want to be my friend

captain sawrge wrote:bryce pax is just icepacks but with a br in front

that would be brice pax you fucking mongoloid holy shit

some people god they are not the same person you idiot

Sawrge BTFO by a gril, ultimate humiliation round

TheNightingale wrote:Why aren't we discouraging wrongdoing in the first place, rather than ignoring it?

Hahahaha, yes. LETS JUST MAKE CRIME ILLEGAL.

Kor wrote:But don't take it from me, listen to your fellow players asking for it back. Half of them are saying upfront they only want it back to laugh at you.

they won't be laughing at me because i do no wrong fam

As a paying member, I'm gonna weigh in.

With this removal, people are far more willing to solve it in IC rather than Ahelp.

Most cases of solve it in IC with the removal of the ban requests works, with the exception of a few admins warning, banning, or generally bwoinking when someone solves it IC.

The only issue occurs when the person who was solved IC decides to Ahelp, which escalates it further since an admin gets involved. A reoccurring factor between these admins that decide to get involved in a case solved in IC are the admins have similar play styles to the "victim" or the solved, and thus feel empathy.

Examples of this are my last ban appeal, which occurred because an admin told me to solve it IC, to which I solved it IC, then the solved person ahelped, and then an admin got involved.

Similar cases were with Robustin, who chatted to me for a good 5 minutes because someone who was validhunting was not cloned because of me. Simply put - in my opinion - Robustin neglected to follow server rules but instead served as if he was in the position of the "victim" since his playstyle is similar to the "victim".

In neither of these cases have I escalated to a complaint or feedback since it was a first transgression.

If admins are going to demand "less than serious" cases solved IC, they must allow people to solve them in their own way than get involved, and if they are involved not to let their personal views cloud a fair and equal judgement.

Lets just go full-on no rules. Im serious. No rules other than the obvious OOC shit like metacomms or repeated station-wide grief.

Alex Crimson wrote:Lets just go full-on no rules. Im serious. No rules other than the obvious OOC shit like metacomms or repeated station-wide grief.

Do it.

Saegrimr wrote:

TheNightingale wrote:Why aren't we discouraging wrongdoing in the first place, rather than ignoring it?

Hahahaha, yes. LETS JUST MAKE CRIME ILLEGAL.

Now this is exactly the kind of attitude we need. But you don't just need to make bad things against the rurus, you need to punish people when they do them.

being sec officer is a lot better now because i can just beat people to death on the gulag whenever i want and not get in trouble for it.

Kor wrote:On a phone so I am going to keep this short(ish) and not reply post by post.

Discouraging, or at least not enabling, a culture of ridiculous grudge holding and petty retaliation is in fact an important step for the overall health of the community.

The potential IC "damage" caused by "wrong doers" (in a game primarily about things being blown up anyway) is a small price to pay for shutting down a frankly embarassing source of drama.

But don't take it from me, listen to your fellow players asking for it back. Half of them are saying upfront they only want it back to laugh at you.

I put in plenty of time and effort to make the game fun both in coding and dealing with ingame adminhelps. Engaging in stupid public shit flinging matches about video game crime for people to gawk at is not high on my to-do list.

Here's the thing Kor, look at this thread:
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=6418

This isn't case of someone 'holding a grudge' and taking the time out to make a ban request on the forum (which only takes slightly more time than ahelping - depending on how lazy the poster is), its a case of someone being a victim of a rule breaker and ahelping in that round, and then getting outright dismissed by four admins - who base their reason solely on the non-existence of FNR-BR. And to top it off the complaint gets closed by HG.
Whats the point of admins existing if they're not to going to do their duty they volunteered for?


Let me put it another way.
If I was the HoS and instead of trying to arrest Laser and reclaim the stolen captain card I instead toss a lit flash bang at his feet and then wail on him with my baton until he's dead, and then dump his corpse off at the kitchen for good measure, are you telling me that I would not be banned?

"appreciate it sincerely"

Community pls, stop being so toxic.

Malkevin wrote:

Kor wrote:On a phone so I am going to keep this short(ish) and not reply post by post.

Discouraging, or at least not enabling, a culture of ridiculous grudge holding and petty retaliation is in fact an important step for the overall health of the community.

The potential IC "damage" caused by "wrong doers" (in a game primarily about things being blown up anyway) is a small price to pay for shutting down a frankly embarassing source of drama.

But don't take it from me, listen to your fellow players asking for it back. Half of them are saying upfront they only want it back to laugh at you.

I put in plenty of time and effort to make the game fun both in coding and dealing with ingame adminhelps. Engaging in stupid public shit flinging matches about video game crime for people to gawk at is not high on my to-do list.

Here's the thing Kor, look at this thread:
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=6418

This isn't case of someone 'holding a grudge' and taking the time out to make a ban request on the forum (which only takes slightly more time than ahelping - depending on how lazy the poster is), its a case of someone being a victim of a rule breaker and ahelping in that round, and then getting outright dismissed by four admins - who base their reason solely on the non-existence of FNR-BR. And to top it off the complaint gets closed by HG.
Whats the point of admins existing if they're not to going to do their duty they volunteered for?


Let me put it another way.
If I was the HoS and instead of trying to arrest Laser and reclaim the stolen captain card I instead toss a lit flash bang at his feet and then wail on him with my baton until he's dead, and then dump his corpse off at the kitchen for good measure, are you telling me that I would not be banned?

Not unless you go onto the IRC and go bug a headmin because the admins LITERALLY can't do their jobs dude.

It's far too hard!
FAR TOO HARD!

this is the state of things right now. fucking despicable rofl.

no

So the discussion was going pretty well and LOTS of people voted for "YES" until HG decided to pull of one of his classic moves and locked a thread that he didn't like, but I'm a cool kid so I'll make a new one.

Link to last thread. https://www.tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewt ... f=2&t=6380

This will end well methinks.
Wonder if HG willbreak out the loyalty implants for all these revs.

Closing the discussion like that was a dick move and solves nothing.

The real question is why you think you or I have any say in this.

Saegrimr wrote:The real question is why you think you or I have any say in this.

We all like to believe this is a democracy rather than a dictatorship. The Ban Requests forum upheld that charade.

Saegrimr wrote:The real question is why you think you or I have any say in this.

Sorry my Fuhrer

I want kor to answer my question of whether I can judge dredd the shit out of capital criminals or if I'm just required to play the part of the victim if I try arresting one

TheNightingale wrote:We all like to believe this is a democracy rather than a dictatorship.

VincVsVincent wrote:Sorry my Fuhrer

kek

Saegrimr wrote:The real question is why you think you or I have any say in this.

pfffff, yeah I mean why would the community have a say in anything.

I mean what has the community ever done for us?

you guys voted for Kor and HG and expected things to be good, but instead, you got exactly what their track record would tell you, and now you're all "w-why are you b-being so m-mean" at them.

y'all guys is bein' dummies, shoulda voted for someone who isn't a fucking doo doo head.

keep ban requests closed so i can griff whenever i want and not get in trouble

None of us voted for HG, several us even tried preventing him running. HG is the admins vote and fault.

So far the only reasons that you've given that it was removed was the following:

Only causes drama.

As does removing it, thus you have no achieved anything whilst making the server significantly worse. Good job.

Having to sift through weeks old records is far too hard!

Too fucking bad you were made an admin specifically so that you would be the ones to sift through those logs. You volunteered, not me, so do your fucking job. You fucking babies.

records also wouldnt be weeks old if, you know, you actually bothered making a response in a reasonable time frame

Seriously. Without ban requests people have been getting away with being toxic in OOC or griefing.

@Malkevin

I know nothing about that particular incident, but

https://www.tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewt ... f=2&t=5893

@Saeg and Nightingale

You guys actually had a say in this. I said I would do this if elected, I got elected, and I did it.

@SAC

Not sure how doing exactly what I said I was going to do if elected and then taking time to repeatedly explain the thoughts behind my actions is being mean.

Not sure what you mean by track record either. I am one of the loudest, most consistent voices for treating players fairly, holding admins vaguely accountable, and generally trying to make sure everyone has a good time. At least I try to be that anyway.

@Cosmic

I don't think I've said anything that makes it us vs them.

You haven't, but the usual suspects have.

As per usual of course.

Kor wrote: @SAC

Not sure how doing exactly what I said I was going to do if elected and then taking time to repeatedly explain the thoughts behind my actions is being mean.

Not sure what you mean by track record either. I am one of the loudest, most consistent voices for treating players fairly, holding admins vaguely accountable, and generally trying to make sure everyone has a good time. At least I try to be that anyway.

See being "loud and consistent" doesn't mean shit if you don't actually accomplish anything, and I should know considering I'm one of the loudest shitposters in this community and have never contributed anything to it. You always buddy up with Horny Granny and enable his Duumvirate of Despair and never challenge him on anything, basically letting him run rough-shod over the playerbase and then going "w-what's going on? WHY WON'T YOU TELL ME WHAT YOU WANT ME TO DO! I'M THE VICTIM HERE!" when the players complain about it, m'dude.

>admins never do ban requests unless they volunteer to clear out a few before quitting the task since 2011 maybe since its founding
>literally the only recent time in tg history where it was ever the actual job of an admin was last year and it wasn't even an admin job, it was specifically a job i had to volunteer to do, even then i had some help because the task is shit

>historical revisionists and drama stirrers say it's an actual admin job

It's never been an admin job. Ban requests being sorted out by admins are acts of charity done by people who don't know any better and still have patience to give or sparked by comments in irc about how some request has been sitting for weeks and a conversation on how nice it would be for some one to put it out of it's misery. Even then, most of the time admins did resolve ban requests was because they were easy to prove cases of guilt. Youd have an easy new request solved in days and week old ones left alone.

Not sure which alt universe admins were obliged to deal with requests but it's not this one.

yeah there's no point in having the forum since the admins didn't do it anyway, the only reason it existed was for people to post evidence of other people being shitheads so they could be ostracized in the community

Great we'll make a player feedback thread and it can serve exactly the same purpose and function. It can be like bays bad rp thread, where someone with salt to air can vent.

ausops.....................

what if we brought back karma

>says he's gonna remove banrequests if he gets elected
>this has literally zero advantages for the community
>still gets elected by the community
the only people to blame are the idiots who didn't read but still voted for him

For the record I didn't vote for Kor, I can't remember who I voted for actually - it was either shaps or longbow man

Super Aggro Crag wrote:you guys voted for Kor and HG and expected things to be good, but instead, you got exactly what their track record would tell you, and now you're all "w-why are you b-being so m-mean" at them.

I FORESAW THISSSSSS

we'll not only bring back karma but link player feedback posts to ooc names in the who verb, that'll show them

Reminder that this is just a game and not a geopolitical entity

Reminder that democracy is a joke

I voted NSOS.

I never asked for this meme.

Ikarrus wrote:Reminder that this is just a game and not a geopolitical entity

Reminder that democracy is a joke

Figures the evil commie slant eye hates democracy.

Super Aggro Crag wrote:yeah there's no point in having the forum since the admins didn't do it anyway, the only reason it existed was for people to post evidence of other people being shitheads so they could be ostracized in the community

I'm not saying I want it brought back, but it was nice to be able to argue on a forum instead of in OOC. It was virtually impossible to get your argument across if there was any nuance to it and the chat was flowing fast. Even really simple points get quickly lost if you're making them in-game after the round.

Alright, here's a grand old idea : Player Complaints

This is not Ban Requests

Someone does something shitty and admins don't deal with it? Oh well, ignore it. He does it again and admins still don't deal with it or don't deal with it in a satisfactory way? Borderline but you should probably still ignore it. Does it again? This time you make a player complaint.

Player Complaints would be calling out the shittiness of particular people over long periods of time so they can (very rarely) be punished or be called out for their shittiness and hopefully cut it out due to mob mentality.

yea let's encourage massive circlejerks against players you dont like that's a fantastic way to keep a community going strong cool

Zilenan's having another shitty idea, big surprise.

Player Complaints was the worst fucking thing back on Bay.

We're not Bay though, people here can make the distinction between, "Hey that guy gave people sex changes three rounds in a row and it's weird" and, "Hey that officer killed a guy who bashed him in the head with a toolbox repeatedly ban him forever mmkay."

Because of us not being HeavyRp and not having a small community, we also won't develop the clique mindset that Bay servers have, meaning that if someone makes a complaint they won't have 5 or 6 friends dogpile in to shit on the person. It's more or less going to be people commenting/giving their own point of view on outstanding shittiness someone did.

Malkevin wrote:

Ikarrus wrote:Reminder that this is just a game and not a geopolitical entity

Reminder that democracy is a joke

Figures the evil commie slant eye hates democracy.

thats kind of racist dude

no

So the discussion was going pretty well and LOTS of people voted for "YES" until HG decided to pull of one of his classic moves and locked a thread that he didn't like, but I'm a cool kid so I'll make a new one. For the second time.

There was no reason to close the other two threads. It's a perfectly valid discussion.