/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2017 12:29 am**

Should dwarves be capable of going to the station?

Should they be able to go to war with the crew or other various lavaland races?

In dwarf fortress dwarves are known for being sadistic and pro-war and combat. I mean farming fucking mermaid bones to make arts and crafts that cost a lot

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2017 12:35 am**

I gave my input on this to my good friend kogmar that unless specified, you shouldn't be killing people because you are not an antagonist. Dorfs don't have the intro text, "Them fuckin' humans gotta pay for breathing!"

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2017 12:45 am**

People with cat girl features should be valid for dwarves. The RP reason could be that the pointy ears remind the dwarves of filthy rock hugging hippy lavalands elves.

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2017 12:56 am**

Bombadil wrote:Should dwarves be capable of going to the station?

Should they be able to go to war with the crew or other various lavaland races?

In dwarf fortress dwarves are known for being sadistic and pro-war and combat. I mean farming fucking mermaid bones to make arts and crafts that cost a lot

Sounds like some amusing headcanon you have there friendo.

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2017 1:07 am**

From IRC

<Iamgoofball2> Hey what the hell who's bothering dwarves for killing people
<Iamgoofball2> They're allowed to kill
<Iamgoofball2> Someone tell admins to stop banning people
<Iamgoofball2> I'd post this on the policy discuss thread BUT I'M STILL BANNED
<QualityVan> are they killing people in lavaland or on station
<Iamgoofball2> At all according to the policy thread
<Iamgoofball2> Someone please post this in the thread
<Iamgoofball2> https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... -304551317
<Iamgoofball2> You got golems and ash lizards for good and bad guys
<Iamgoofball2> Dwarves are loose cannons
<Jordie> well goof the objective is just "make claim to these lands"
<Jordie> thats not really the same as "exterminate all intruders"
<Iamgoofball2> If the dwarves want to become hostile to the miners, that's on them
<Iamgoofball2> Forcing the neutral faction to be good or bad is dumb
<Iamgoofball2> Let them choose via rp
<Iamgoofball2> They'll enjoy it more than rules railroading
<QualityVan> i think you're overestimating the reach of rp in comparison to the reach of murderboning
<Iamgoofball2> I think you're underestimating the players
<Iamgoofball2> Regardless if admins try to corrupt my design vision I will make them antags
<Iamgoofball2> Dwarves aren't supposed to be super friendly miners ghost role
<Iamgoofball2> That's golems
<Iamgoofball2> They also aren't super aggro ash lizards
<Iamgoofball2> That's lizards
<Jordie> if thats what you desire then maybe you should make this more clear to them then
<Iamgoofball2> They were given an codeside objective to take over LL, figured that would be good enough
<Jordie> it seems as is the information about what their role should be lies mostly within your head
<Jordie> it's not a very clear message
<Iamgoofball2> I figured it'd be self evident
<Iamgoofball2> I'll fix it when I get home
<Jordie> mayhaps since you made them =P
<Iamgoofball2> In the meantime repost my github comment in policy discussion please I still can't post there
<Jordie> first reading of it is basically "avoid everyone else on lavaland and go dig tunnels"
<Jordie> which isnt the same as your view
<Iamgoofball2> Yeah

The objective in question is

Make claim to these hellish lands, constructing a great fortress and mining the rock for its precious metals, in the name of the Dwarven people!

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2017 1:14 am**

cedarbridge wrote:
Bombadil wrote:Should dwarves be capable of going to the station?

Should they be able to go to war with the crew or other various lavaland races?

In dwarf fortress dwarves are known for being sadistic and pro-war and combat. I mean farming fucking mermaid bones to make arts and crafts that cost a lot
Sounds like some amusing headcanon you have there friendo.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=25967.0

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/N ... rfFortress

Ain't no headcanon

Have you read boatmurdered?

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2017 6:35 am**

Before someone says "Just act in self defence, like, wait for them to shoot first ahah" the KA deals 40 damage without upgrades, meaning that if a miner shoots first you're dead.

Dwarves should either be valid and unrestricted or not valid and peaceful, not a mix of both which will inevitably lead to the usual chain of bans and policy threads. Valid doesn't mean that you have to kill them but that you won't be banned if you do. And at the same time dwarves shouldn't be banned if they feel threatened and attack first.

As for the other lavaland races, they already fall into their respective dwarf fortress role, ash walkers are kobolds, plant people are elves, golems are... hmmm... colossi? Don't know

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2017 11:27 am**

Bombadil wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
Bombadil wrote:Should dwarves be capable of going to the station?

Should they be able to go to war with the crew or other various lavaland races?

In dwarf fortress dwarves are known for being sadistic and pro-war and combat. I mean farming fucking mermaid bones to make arts and crafts that cost a lot
Sounds like some amusing headcanon you have there friendo.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=25967.0

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/N ... rfFortress

Ain't no headcanon

Have you read boatmurdered?

Dwarves don't act like they do when controlled by the player under any other circumstances though haha. If you retire a fort the historical event created by doing so is even something like "The dwarves of MountainMountain regained their senses after a period of madness"

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2017 5:01 pm**

Just make it so dwarves are valid to kill and be killed. Bam, policy clear.

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2017 5:07 pm**

Make a dwarven crown and the king dwarf sets the rules of engagement/the objective text for his followers for that round. Another dwarf taking the crown can change the text

That way we can still have dwarf wars without letting people randomly spawn and kill and fuck up diplomatic rounds

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2017 5:09 pm**

They need greater limits on spawning if they are allowed to wage all out war though

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2017 5:21 pm**

Or instead we could restrict dwarves to only being able to use primitive weapons like ash walkers, with the addition of like bows and crossbows. Dwarves have better numbers but worse gear.

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2017 6:16 pm**

ShadowDimentio wrote:Or instead we could restrict dwarves to only being able to use primitive weapons like ash walkers, with the addition of like bows and crossbows. Dwarves have better numbers but worse gear.

You realize their only weapons are picks and swords ya?

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2017 6:22 pm**

The spawner should.be destroyable.

In any case, that crown mandate idea sounds best.

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2017 6:24 pm**

ShadowDimentio wrote:Or instead we could restrict dwarves to only being able to use primitive weapons like ash walkers, with the addition of like bows and crossbows. Dwarves have better numbers but worse gear.

They have no resource expenditure or real limit on spawning so having 40 guys instantly show up is possible if there are enough ghosts. Doesn't matter how primitive they are if they are in such numbers.

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2017 6:27 pm**

Ooh, make the spawner require like 5000 credits worth of goods for a new dwarf to appear. Something something, dwarves like gold.

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2017 6:44 pm**

The original plan iirc was 6 spawners and then migrant waves through the portal

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2017 6:45 pm**

Implement the crown thing, I want dorf nobles who starve the populace by demanding all labor go towards building them an opulent bedroom.

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2017 12:06 am**

Jacough wrote:People with cat girl features should be valid.

This is really all we need. Keep out the furries and keep lizards second-class.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:33 am**

Dwarves were given a mandate to wage war on the humans, so after some fighting and multiple dwarves getting shit on by a borg with a flash, I took one of the few bombs a scientist planted around the fort as a trap and proceeded to bomb the escape shuttle. Coped a day ban from ghost roles.

Not arguing against the ban ruling, just curious about how mandates are going to be handled when it comes to this stuff.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:51 am**

The person who made the mandate should be held responsible for the actions of their dwarves.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:25 am**

I mean... Why wouldn't they be? The other roles can and do.
Though i'd imagine the portal would need some limiting to prevent an endless tide of dwarves from surging through and sieging the station.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:33 am**

Portal needs to be destroyable and a cap on dwarves has to be put. Right now unless you can make a lava river around their spawn point it's a metagrudging enabling respawn button.

This of course going off the assumption the spawning cap hasn't been set yet

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:57 am**

Hm, maybe we should reconsider a lavaland role's balance and implementation if it starts becoming this much of an issue, along with the code that it's running.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:23 am**

Goof's gone off the deep end and closed the PR: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... -305420565

He's posted some interesting name and image changes to the OP.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:42 am**

Dwarves have unlimited lives still, just a ten minute respawn timer per player that doesn't even work sometimes.

The ban sounds like a mistake though.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:26 pm**

D&B wrote:Portal needs to be destroyable and a cap on dwarves has to be put. Right now unless you can make a lava river around their spawn point it's a metagrudging enabling respawn button.

This of course going off the assumption the spawning cap hasn't been set yet

portal is destroyable, hit it more

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:28 pm**

Why not make dwarves pro-station entirely, with the restriction that they can't leave lavaland. While making them coded in such a way where a miner or someone has to find them to let them start interacting with the station. That way it would present a reward to miners (having a bunch of Dorf goons to help you out) and prevent a host of issues like metagrudging using them, using them to valid players still originally alive and encouraging players to do building and exploration projects instead of validhunt with their ghost role.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:33 pm**

Nah, goes against the spirit of DF

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:20 pm**

I want to have the freedom to do fun things like trying to sneak onto the station to steal metastation's nuclear beer keg.
But I don't want to see dwarfs raiding the station to go kill anyone, unless the station's done shit to them to (really) warrant it.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:40 pm**

ITT: I want my cake but I also really wanna eat it

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:52 pm**

Kor wrote:Dwarves have unlimited lives still, just a ten minute respawn timer per player that doesn't even work sometimes.

The ban sounds like a mistake though.

Psure the timer not working is tied to ghosting before you fully die or some dumb shit.

Sometimes it takes over 10 mins if you die proper super messed up.

/tg/Station 13

Lavaland Dwarves

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