/tg/Station 13

Circuits are going to be replacing R&D pretty soon here with the techwebs merge and decentralization of R&D, and right now, why would I bother making anything complex if I can't save my work?

Things that can happen without the ability to back my work up:
"oh, rev/gang/wizard/cult/clockcult/nuke round just ended 15 minutes in, RIP my design I was halfway through building, no way to back it up before round restarts"
"hey check out this cool logic module I made to use in other configurations, too bad I can't save it and reuse the technology elsewhere"
"here's an example on how to set up locomotion, oh wait, I can't give you the design"


Potential issues:
"people will spam stun bots!"
we nerf the stunner/make it traitor only
"people will spam the same bots over and over again and wont improve their design"
they already do

i don't even know what this means so i'm all for it

it means you can take circuit designs from other rounds if you have the right text for it and paste it into an integrated circuit machine

tl;dr factorio blueprints strings

Afaik it was enabled already.
If not, i told goof very clearly what he needed to do for me to enable them.

Why did this need a policy thread?

More of a feature/code request but it'd be neat if blueprints could be stored in or as part of the library.

cedarbridge wrote:Why did this need a policy thread?

was told asking for config changes goes to policy

Atlanta-Ned wrote:More of a feature/code request but it'd be neat if blueprints could be stored in or as part of the library.

since they're strings you can already do that

Atlanta-Ned wrote:More of a feature/code request but it'd be neat if blueprints could be stored in or as part of the library.

Hell yes, put those display cases to use.

it's not a code request, this is a configuration option we disabled to ensure the thing made it in to the game.

I also suggest to turn it on. Becuse the whole point of my work was to make this system useful. Which is impossible, when you can't load design. It just don't worth effort otherwise.

Well. i asked headmins, and they say they are worried it will turn into M.A.G.N.I. 2.0 if we turn loading on

I think this is gonna be MAGNI 2.0 but I turned it on on basil anyway after talking with DGL about his experiences with it

Kor wrote:I think this is gonna be MAGNI 2.0 but I turned it on on basil anyway after talking with DGL about his experiences with it

Are we certain it's enabled? I attempted to load a circuit design and got the usual message saying that we were incapable of loading circuit designs because of (IC reason) none too long ago, and presumably after you made that post.

My brain is smooth and I put the line in config.txt instead of game_options.txt it should actually be enabled now

iamgoofball wrote:Circuits are going to be replacing R&D pretty soon here with the techwebs merge and decentralization of R&D, and right now, why would I bother making anything complex if I can't save my work?

Things that can happen without the ability to back my work up:
"oh, rev/gang/wizard/cult/clockcult/nuke round just ended 15 minutes in, RIP my design I was halfway through building, no way to back it up before round restarts"

Literally what happens with every other project which requires more than 10 minutes, why should it be different for circuits?

Grazyn wrote:

iamgoofball wrote:Circuits are going to be replacing R&D pretty soon here with the techwebs merge and decentralization of R&D, and right now, why would I bother making anything complex if I can't save my work?

Things that can happen without the ability to back my work up:
"oh, rev/gang/wizard/cult/clockcult/nuke round just ended 15 minutes in, RIP my design I was halfway through building, no way to back it up before round restarts"

Literally what happens with every other project which requires more than 10 minutes, why should it be different for circuits?

I don't get to back up my autism forts, slime breeding progress, space loot collection or chem fridge content. We don't let viro store virus samples in a database. Why should circuits be different?

Programming that takes hours may have just been a poor fit for a deathmatch game that lasts 30 minutes

Or potentially, the concept of being able to carry over some past work is actually good for the game. It'd make people less angry over bad rounds.

i gotta be honest the real reason I stopped playing(aside from burning out) was the fact that I already learned everything that's a set prefixed path, so the only entertaining things anymore are gimmicks that are out of the ordinary to produce out of the ordinary rounds, and circuits, because circuits are 100% modular and have loads of shit you can do with them(because its programming)

all the upsides of programming for ss13 without having to deal with PRs, balance, arguing about ethics and borg journalism, etc.

additionally the whole automating jobs out of existence makes me wonder:

if our jobs are so boring people would rather just automate them and alt-tab, are they really fun jobs?

that's a different thing entirely though so we shouldn't dwell on that for too long

i've changed my vote to no because this is cool but why is this in this game

I support being able to carry projects over from other rounds, rounds are too short to create anything that's not extremely basic circuits; however, with this enabled the possibility for more entertaining and complex projects can be fully realized.

However, I do recognize the potential for abuse with how it currently works. It's all too easy for someone to create the perfect valid-hunting killing machine, and share it with other users, allowing the device to be created every round with ease. It's easier for someone to create said machine on a private server, allowing them to create and refine the machine to perfection with none of the risks in a real round.

However, this system can be improved to make the script be unique to the user's id (to prevent them from sharing a design with other players) and/or to the server (to prevent being able to create and refine a circuit in a private server). That will probably erase any issues that could pop up with just being able to ctr-c ctrl-v circuits.

I still don't understand why this isn't an actual physical in-game circuitboard you have to store in like the RD's special safe or something to bring to the next round instead of NTSL 2.0

Saegrimr wrote:I still don't understand why this isn't an actual physical in-game circuitboard you have to store in like the RD's special safe or something to bring to the next round instead of NTSL 2.0

I'm pretty sure goof just explained why.

Coders like to code but many don't like to play because its not as interesting to them as coding. So if we put coding into SS13 then they have a reason to log in. So they can code. Except they don't like losing their code so they want to be able to database their code and/or copy paste it.

cedarbridge wrote:Except they don't like losing their code so they want to be able to database their code and/or copy paste it.

That's the kind of problem and solution making it an in-game item would solve. Especially if you could only store one and had to choose which one you liked the best.

Saegrimr wrote:Especially if you could only store one and had to choose which one you liked the best.

this is dumb, please read the OP and use your brain to figure out why this is dumb

iamgoofball wrote:

Saegrimr wrote:Especially if you could only store one and had to choose which one you liked the best.

this is dumb, please read the OP and use your brain to figure out why this is dumb

"Agree with me or you're dumb."

Excellent post Goof. You done the did.

cedarbridge wrote:

iamgoofball wrote:

Saegrimr wrote:Especially if you could only store one and had to choose which one you liked the best.

this is dumb, please read the OP and use your brain to figure out why this is dumb

"Agree with me or you're dumb."

Excellent post Goof. You done the did.

you clearly didnt read the OP

how am I going to share a logic module for like, calculating triangles or defining arbitrary polygons if I can only take one thing AND cant share it

cedarbridge wrote:

Saegrimr wrote:I still don't understand why this isn't an actual physical in-game circuitboard you have to store in like the RD's special safe or something to bring to the next round instead of NTSL 2.0

I'm pretty sure goof just explained why.

Coders like to code but many don't like to play because its not as interesting to them as coding. So if we put coding into SS13 then they have a reason to log in. So they can code. Except they don't like losing their code so they want to be able to database their code and/or copy paste it.

This maybe the stupidest post I have ever read on this forum.

Like are you actually serious or is this a hut post that escaped on it's way home?

oranges wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

Saegrimr wrote:I still don't understand why this isn't an actual physical in-game circuitboard you have to store in like the RD's special safe or something to bring to the next round instead of NTSL 2.0

I'm pretty sure goof just explained why.

Coders like to code but many don't like to play because its not as interesting to them as coding. So if we put coding into SS13 then they have a reason to log in. So they can code. Except they don't like losing their code so they want to be able to database their code and/or copy paste it.

This maybe the stupidest post I have ever read on this forum.

Like are you actually serious or is this a hut post that escaped on it's way home?

Its literally how he described it. Or are you going to elaborate beyond your usual shitstirring?

why is it restricted again?

NTSL failed because of next reasons:
1.server crash. NTSL was messing with fabric of byond too much. Circuit script can't crash server. There aren't until loops. It can assemble circuit.Or not assemble circuit. No other option.
2.lack of potential uses. Telecomms fuckery may be fun. But not fun enought to make possibility of server crash and lags acceptable. There are very limited amount of things,which can be done with strings of messages to get fun result. So they were all covered by one script. Situation could be different, if there was programmable robots,for example.

Yes, why not to construct valid hunting machine? and why not to invent the way to counter it?

iamgoofball wrote:a logic module for like, calculating triangles or defining arbitrary polygons

man this is gonna be super useful in my 45 minute wizard/ tatorling mulligan round

feem wrote:

iamgoofball wrote:a logic module for like, calculating triangles or defining arbitrary polygons

man this is gonna be super useful in my 45 minute wizard/ tatorling mulligan round

oh gee rick it's almost like people want to make things that aren't just for FIGHT DA ANTAG

oh wait, by removing any way to keep designs and making it so one design can be saved a round, people will only make incredibly simplistic GET DA ANTAG or HALP DYING circuits.

I really think you should play a few rounds and see how the playerbase functions

feem wrote:I really think you should play a few rounds and see how the playerbase functions

1. telling me to "see for myself" without being able to back up this with facts and data is a failure to argue properly as per standard debate parlance

2. have you been reading this thread at all? i have been playing recently since circuits were added

when printing was disabled every person I talked to IN GAME AND IN CHARACTER agreed "yeah no reason to make anything complex" with no way to save your work

then printing got enabled and oh gee now i have a reason to make stuff because I don't lose it forever and have to spend 45 minutes getting carpal tunnel clicking through a shitty html UI mess again

Yeah, goof right. Enabling blueprints you are protecting wrist health of most creative players of the game.
Did you know, that tunnel syndrom needs an operation to be healed?

why not just use persistence like display cases

you can pass 2 or 4 or whatever designs to the next round (and make them non copy pastable so it's actually meaningful)

If we can store four designs do you think bits of AI that can be used to develop a botany bot are gonna be saved or three finished killbots and one finished "HELP I GOT STUNNED" circuit

Kor wrote:If we can store four designs do you think bits of AI that can be used to develop a botany bot are gonna be saved or three finished killbots and one finished "HELP I GOT STUNNED" circuit

Is that a persistence problem or a "the system itself is so obtuse it requires cross-round cooperation" problem?

cedarbridge wrote:

Kor wrote:If we can store four designs do you think bits of AI that can be used to develop a botany bot are gonna be saved or three finished killbots and one finished "HELP I GOT STUNNED" circuit

Is that a persistence problem or a "the system itself is so obtuse it requires cross-round cooperation" problem?

Answering a question with another question to get out of actually answering is a logical fallacy.

cedarbridge wrote:

Kor wrote:If we can store four designs do you think bits of AI that can be used to develop a botany bot are gonna be saved or three finished killbots and one finished "HELP I GOT STUNNED" circuit

Is that a persistence problem or a "the system itself is so obtuse it requires cross-round cooperation" problem?

Player problem.

It's still a system that encourages people to make their stuff on a private server and then copypaste it in game, that or hide in a locker while you program your thing and hope it isn't one of those "sudden round end" game modes.

Grazyn wrote:It's still a system that encourages people to make their stuff on a private server and then copypaste it in game, that or hide in a locker while you program your thing and hope it isn't one of those "sudden round end" game modes.

You've failed to explain to me why people would use private servers to make stuff if they can make it here and back up their progress?

Kor wrote:If we can store four designs do you think bits of AI that can be used to develop a botany bot are gonna be saved or three finished killbots and one finished "HELP I GOT STUNNED" circuit

depends on the round. look at library display cases: they sometimes have gibberish or memes and sometimes have people who actually put forth effort. even if someone saves 4 killbots it only takes one person to overwrite it

bandit wrote:

Kor wrote:If we can store four designs do you think bits of AI that can be used to develop a botany bot are gonna be saved or three finished killbots and one finished "HELP I GOT STUNNED" circuit

depends on the round. look at library display cases: they sometimes have gibberish or memes and sometimes have people who actually put forth effort. even if someone saves 4 killbots it only takes one person to overwrite it

The library cases are public access. The device saver likely wouldn't be.

as we all know, moonlighting in science is a real thing

iamgoofball wrote:

Grazyn wrote:It's still a system that encourages people to make their stuff on a private server and then copypaste it in game, that or hide in a locker while you program your thing and hope it isn't one of those "sudden round end" game modes.

You've failed to explain to me why people would use private servers to make stuff if they can make it here and back up their progress?

I feel like it should be blatantly obvious why people would use a private server over playing on /tg/ to get circuits but I guess I'll take the bait.

• No interruptions
• Round doesn't end until you want it to
• You can tinker and debug without having to worry about saving a half-finished assembly for the next round
• Don't have to wait for the cloner upgrade to keep working on your half-finished assembly

There's more reasons I could list but those are the main ones.

iamgoofball wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

Kor wrote:If we can store four designs do you think bits of AI that can be used to develop a botany bot are gonna be saved or three finished killbots and one finished "HELP I GOT STUNNED" circuit

Is that a persistence problem or a "the system itself is so obtuse it requires cross-round cooperation" problem?

Answering a question with another question to get out of actually answering is a logical fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy
Stop posting.