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Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:55 pm
by Nabski
What is acceptable to say something about in OOC?
Explaining how ash lizards make more eggs.
Saying something about a pAI.
Asking for the drone dispenser to be filled.
Positronic brains.
There's a variety of spins you can put on the initial comment, but honestly there's not that many reasons people bring up a ghost role with no other conversation about it in OOC.
I personally feel that none of these should be allowed since they influence the game from OOC. Ideally you should not be able to know anything about the round until it's done from OOC which is why even more "simple asking for information" is best done with ahelps.
This thread was inspired by my feedback thread while seemed to almost be becoming a policy discussion.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:07 pm
by Pascal125
I'm not certain that this is the case anymore, but people used to be able to get away with saying "Drones available" or "pAI available" in OOC with admins present.
Although, at the time. pAI's didn't announce availability to people nearby, when submitted. Or anything like that.
I'd personally think it should still be fine, but... There are problems with it, such as if you recognize a ckey and their character and their character is in the round, it'd could be hard to avoid metagaming knowing that they are most likely dead and would be difficult to retrieve, as they are now advertising for pAI/Drone/Posibrain in OOC. It would also inform would be antagonists or players that some people may have pAI's or that drones are being made. It all feels like small "influences" if you could even call it that, though. And responsible players should be able to avoid using the knowledge to begin with.
Explaining things should be kept to adminhelps, but it can be difficult to explain certain things ICly to people if they ask you how to do certain things, at which point. At least for me. I kind of wish i could just quickly explain in OOC. But i know i can't. And i can't tell them to just admin-help their questions ICly either. LOOC would be nice for situations like that but for whatever reason, people don't want that.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:10 pm
by cedarbridge
OOC should not be used as a recourse to tell players in the round to do anything. Using subterfuge to do it by "informing nobody in particular" how to do the thing you are really just asking somebody to do should likewise not be acceptable.
Just don't do it. Players in round can choose to or not fill the drone maker if they want. Begging for the drone fab to be filled is about as obnoxious as people who beg for special ghost roles in ahelps constantly.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:27 pm
by Gamarr
Each one of these posts is a good case for exactly why OOC should just be off during in-progress rounds.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:55 pm
by bandit
Explaining how ash lizards make eggs: OK if it’s just an explanation but be careful not to imply there are ash lizards/eggs currently.
The rest can either be said IC or in deadchat—If you’re eligible for ghost roles, you by definition have access to deadchat. There is no reason, ever, to take it to OOC.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:43 pm
by EagleWiz
Requesting seems bad, but if your already a ghost role and you want to know how it works that seems like minimal OOC knowledge and it helps newbies understand the game systems (I think we might have issues with that, which cause newbies to gravitate to the easiest system to understand, that being clicking vertical sprites until they go horizontal, but that's an issue for another thread). That said, asking live players to do anything other then tell newbies how to do basic stuff is pretty clearly not OOC
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:01 pm
by Nilons
Making intentional IC in OOC okay sometimes will just confuse players
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:16 pm
by Cobby
Press F1 instead.
The game informs people who have the prefs set to be those roles automatically, allowing this is just creating a grey zone for the sake of having one in a fairly black and white rule.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:22 am
by Limski
Going strictly by the rules, mentioning anything about the round in OOC is IC in OOC, asking about game mechanics is fine as long as it doesn't reference the occurrences of the round even vaguely.
As others have mentioned before, making an exception to those rules adds nothing of value and you are better off solving uncertainties by ahelping
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:08 am
by Slignerd
Just don't ask for things at all and instead casually talk about what you like doing as a drone or a pAI, without even vaguely implying anything about the current round.
If someone likes the idea and wishes to make use of that in the current round, they just might fill the drone dispenser or get a pAI. If not, then absolutely nobody is pressured to do anything.
Just don't do any actual "wink wing nudge nudge" bullshit, and you shouldn't get in trouble for something as simple as this. At least, I think not.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:39 am
by RandomMarine
I vaguely recall age way back where the wiki suggested that it was okay to request someone to request a pAI over OOC without any specifics about the round itself.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:59 am
by feem
I'm kind of a stickler for not talking about the round in OOC. Anything that happens there can and WILL impact the way players behave.
I mean, if you ask for a pAI for example, let's say that makes two dudes rush for the pAI at the same time, except one of them is a traitor and kills the first one.
Sure, it's part of the game, but the OOC interaction _made that happen_, and sure, maybe it doesn't matter a whole lot in this instance, but the point is outside influences should, as much as possible, not affect the round.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:56 pm
by Cobby
Reminder: If people aren't going the role it's not because they aren't informed. It means they have their prefs set to not hear those notifications or they've pressed no on the notification.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:10 pm
by cedarbridge
Cobby wrote:Reminder: If people aren't going the role it's not because they aren't informed. It means they have their prefs set to not hear those notifications or they've pressed no on the notification.
In the case of this thread's topic, its less "Hey OOC I filled the drone fab" and more "Hey OOC somebody should fill the drone fab."
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:18 am
by Rustledjimm
Personally I dislike anything in the round being talked about OOC.
Some players can and will use any information they can get via OOC and even if it seems unimportant to you it can have a drastic effect on someone elses round. I've had people ahelp me before and go "hey can you tell ghosts I'm opening up X" or "Hey just let ghosts know Y is about to happen" and I've been happy to fulfill those requests however I'm pretty strict on OOC usage.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:58 am
by Dax Dupont
no icky ocky please
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:06 am
by Cobby
cedarbridge wrote:Cobby wrote:Reminder: If people aren't going the role it's not because they aren't informed. It means they have their prefs set to not hear those notifications or they've pressed no on the notification.
In the case of this thread's topic, its less "Hey OOC I filled the drone fab" and more "Hey OOC somebody should fill the drone fab."
That’s just outright not ok then.
The other at least makes some sense because nice guy just trying to let people know about the roles
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:30 pm
by yorii
I think there's a difference between bad forms of communication and allowable or even good forms of it, for example:
Being dead and saying "Hey let's build some positronic brains" in OOC = Bad.
Being alive and saying "Hey let's build some positronic brains" in radio chat = Good.
Being dead and saying "Hey you stupid idiots you should go let the ghost roles on lavaland on to the station" in OOC = Superbad.
Being dead and saying "Hey did you know lavaland exists on this map by way of a shuttle from cargo?" in OOC = Okay, I guess? Admins seem to have differing opinions on this form of communication in particular.
Being alive and saying "We should go check on lavaland, haven't heard from any of the miners in a while" in radio chat = Good.
IMHO ghosts should preferably shut the fuck up and stick to ghost chat for the most part, and hope some player actually does provide relevant information in the radio chat (like if the server pop is 50+ and the station feels abandoned, you should probably build some drones or brains).
General game mechanics discussions occurring in OOC which may or may not be relevant to the current round can be a swing and miss or okay sometimes maybe? I don't think there's any actual rule or headmin ruling or even general consensus among admins on how to treat such communication.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:17 pm
by BeeSting12
You shouldn't be talking about the current round in OOC at all. Stuff like talking about the balance of c20rs on an ops round after getting killed by one or talking about wizard balance in OOC during a wizard round is somewhat iffy and depending on context can end in a global ooc mute. Apparently saying pai available is fine but i dont even really like that.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:32 pm
by cedarbridge
This is a ton of splitting hairs over something that shouldn't be complicated. You know when what you're saying is going to influence the in-game events of the round. Using OOC to influence in-game events is bad and you shouldn't be doing it even if you think you're being indirect to clever about it.
That's really it.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:55 pm
by kevinz000
cedarbridge wrote:OOC should not be used as a recourse to tell players in the round to do anything. Using subterfuge to do it by "informing nobody in particular" how to do the thing you are really just asking somebody to do should likewise not be acceptable.
Just don't do it. Players in round can choose to or not fill the drone maker if they want. Begging for the drone fab to be filled is about as obnoxious as people who beg for special ghost roles in ahelps constantly.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:42 am
by Bluespace
i'd happily fill the drone thingy/print posibrains, i just forget half the time till someone brings it up in ooc.
protip: ask if posibrains need silver in ooc and 10 seconds later someone will print them, ez pz.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:04 am
by Rustledjimm
Also can people stop doing the whole "But I'm not talking about the round specifically it's just generally!!!!!!!!!!!!!" when you're speaking about the balancing of an object or thing that is unique to said round.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:40 pm
by RandomMarine
Maybe it's for the best to code some function for ghosts to request these things. Like click the drone dispenser when it's empty to make it beep or something.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:46 pm
by imblyings
1 beep for no, 2 beep for yes
I have written down papers with cardinal directions down to 3 levels, beep when I am standing on the piece of paper that most accurately corresponds to the direction of your body
Here are jumpsuits for each department, beep when I am standing on the jumpsuit of the department that the ling is from
it may sound ridiculous but I used to be such an innovative chaplain player when ghosts could still spin chairs, I'm sure there are other players out there with similar mindsets
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:31 am
by Arianya
No headmin actually made a ruling on this.
(Jimm was not yet headmin when he made his post earlier in this thread)
Let's get some fresh opining in here:
Should there be any exemptions to IC in OOC for advertising availability of ghost roles? (i.e. pAI personalities available, people ready to enter an inactive posibrain, etc)
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:24 pm
by Floiven
Isn't there a notification that pops up from paI's when someone's available to everyone nearby? Maybe add something like that for posibrains, or from the announcements board in the relevant departments. If this already exists then disregard, don't play robotics much.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:40 pm
by BeeSting12
Arianya wrote:No headmin actually made a ruling on this.
(Jimm was not yet headmin when he made his post earlier in this thread)
Let's get some fresh opinion* in here:
Should there be any exemptions to IC in OOC for advertising availability of ghost roles? (i.e. pAI personalities available, people ready to enter an inactive posibrain, etc)
As of right now, we only allow "pAI available" in OOC.
I'd rather just make it all against the rules.
Re: Requesting a ghost role in OOC
Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:08 am
by Cobby
Allowing IC in OOC because there's insufficient feedback ingame seems like a bad copout at best and a lubed slope at worse.