/tg/Station 13

Alright. I get 90% of the players probably hate xenos, mostly for valid reasons, but please hear me out on this.

For the past umpteenth rounds over the past MONTH that a xeno egg has spawned in xenobiology, from my experience, without fail, someone, somewhere, came to immediately fill the containment room with plasma and burn it.

Yes, I know xenos are intended to be round enders, and yes, they will probably escape containment somehow regardless if precautions aren't taken, but it's gotten to the point where I have not yet seen a round in a month where the xeno egg actually survived for more than 10 minutes. Why is this event even included if players are 99 times out of 100 (which it's rare to begin with) are just going to toss aside and destroy it?

I'm not saying it's straight up metagaming (because the crew knows xenos are dangerous and antags), but this feels a lot like the whole replacing the plasma pipe in atmos to cripple the AI. Bad comparison given the circumstances, I'm aware, but the similarities are there.

They could just refuse to feed the egg until they're prepared, and even if they do feed it early, the only natural problem they have is running out of power for the shield generators. A competent xenobiologist would already have yellow slime cores by this time and could easily replace the APC's cell, making power a nonissue. This applies even if engineering is absolutely awful. Even in the event that noone wanted to be a xenobiologist, then the egg could just sit in the chamber the entire round and nothing would change from normal.

Despite what I might've implied, I'm not saying the crew should be forced to take care of it. Just that as far as this summer has been the crew has essentially 100% chosen to not take care of it. Round ending events from admins are objectively more common than any xenobiology egg even birthing one facehugger. Please tell me I'm not the only one that thinks this is kind of annoying.

tl;dr:
Maybe it's the salt over this whole thing talking but I feel the xeno egg spawn in xenobiology should either just be removed or some policy set on not just immediately purging it because as it is it feels like it doesn't really exist at all. It's insane how often it's just incinerated to save the crew stress. It's killing one of the already few ghost roles that usually occur in a round, and making the entire chamber built to do this exact one thing also completely useless.

Most of the time I don't see it burnt at roundstart. Also the atmos pipe compare is dumb as hell.

It should be a science decision, but i'm not going to force people to not break it.

You can absolutely valid someone if you are a scientist and say an engineer destroys the rare and precious item immediately though.

Dax Dupont wrote:Most of the time I don't see it burnt at roundstart.

I'll chalk it up to cosmically insane bad luck on my part then.

Dax Dupont wrote:Also the atmos pipe compare is dumb as hell.

It's the same mindset. They're nipping something in the bud so they don't have to deal with it later. Doing it for a xeno isn't breaking any rules, but it happens so often it's starting to feel like it. That's what I mean.

Cobby wrote:You can absolutely valid someone if you are a scientist and say an engineer destroys the rare and precious item immediately though.

But the most recent time it was a borg. How do you even deal with that? I mean they were following their laws I guess but you cant just valid a borg for doing it I'd imagine.

xenos are cancer and anyone who permanently removes xenos from a round has made that round objectively better

one day you too will understand this and you will become the person who burns the egg

subject217 wrote:xenos are cancer and anyone who permanently removes xenos from a round has made that round objectively better

one day you too will understand this and you will become the person who burns the egg

I mean, that's part of my point though. If many people feel the same way you do then why not just remove it so it wont even be a waste of time. There really isn't a point for there to be like a 2% chance (correct me if im wrong) of it spawning only for it to be burned a percentage of the time many times that one.

>Then why not just remove it

Some coders are in love with there op round ender vore machines.

There are ALOT of ways to get xenos, its silly actually. You can get them from lavaland, You can get them from the meateor event. The xeno event, and the roundstart xenobio egg. I guess thats just 4, but they can be pretty common. It may be fun to be one, but its never fun to play against. At best its just a hassle, that you'd rather not deal with.

The point is we should all be blaming whichever maintainer enjoys these guys.

Whether they're in the game is up to the coders. Whether you can break it is up to the admins. I'd never tell people not to break it, fuck xenos.

Xenos are just another antag, and antags are generally not fun to play against since you are always at a disadvantage by default (noslips, stuns, eswords, magic missiles, chunky ass blobs etc.).
That being said, it's entirely within reason to burn the egg and entirely within reason to not burn it. You could, for instance, make a xeno brain transplant as a scientist for shits and giggles, extract their hive glands or make a xeno zoo. Or you could just say "fuck it", not take the risk, and burn the egg.
Just leave it up to players, shouldn't be a policy issue. The only time admins should intervene is if a nonantag scientist just releases them.

Zack wrote:I mean, that's part of my point though. If many people feel the same way you do then why not just remove it so it wont even be a waste of time. There really isn't a point for there to be like a 2% chance (correct me if im wrong) of it spawning only for it to be burned a percentage of the time many times that one.

it drives conflict in the round and it's sometimes funny to watch new players try to do xenos. it's not really the end of the world either way, so why remove it?

Yeah let's just destroy something that might actually cause something to happen in a round. God forbid any conflict were to happen in SS13.

DrPillzRedux wrote:Yeah let's just destroy something that might actually cause something to happen in a round. God forbid any conflict were to happen in SS13.

It can't do anything in the round unless you go to the cage, in which case you'd only go to the cage if there's an egg in there.

DrPillzRedux wrote:Yeah let's just destroy something that might actually cause something to happen in a round. God forbid any conflict were to happen in SS13.

You haven't played in over a year. Why even post on this thread? It obviously has nothing to do with you.

DrPillzRedux wrote:Yeah let's just destroy something that might actually cause something to happen in a round.

Rarely plays.

Literally the first thing people do with egg is jump into pen and get impregnated. Borderline self-antaging (but technically not). If you want to have Xenos, devise some mechanics for science to work on them. Experiment and shit, surgery. CM style.

Lumbermancer wrote:

DrPillzRedux wrote:Yeah let's just destroy something that might actually cause something to happen in a round.

Rarely plays.

Literally the first thing people do with egg is jump into pen and get impregnated. Borderline self-antaging (but technically not). If you want to have Xenos, devise some mechanics for science to work on them. Experiment and shit, surgery. CM style.

There are already the stupidly powerful xeno organs that can be harvested from dead aliens.

Yeah but organs are just for powergaming, not science. Make researching them unlock some special projects or something. Have an aditional step between Xenos and benefits.

Xeno organs can be sold at cargo for big bucks and are a common bounty if I'm not mistaken.

Also @zack the xeno egg definitely spawns far more often than you think it does, it just gets missed/ignored most of the time because nobody uses its chamber unless they're a shitter who's spawning magicarp

Zack wrote:

Dax Dupont wrote:Also the atmos pipe compare is dumb as hell.

It's the same mindset. They're nipping something in the bud so they don't have to deal with it later. Doing it for a xeno isn't breaking any rules, but it happens so often it's starting to feel like it. That's what I mean.

Not really, xeno egg is a ghost role antag like ash lizards and don't have any protection against getting obliterated before they even exist.

(Rogue) AIs are a traitor's tool and/or an antag that's present during the normal going of the round. They exist. Xeno antags do not exist till they hatch.

If you can't understand the difference between fucking over someone's round with destroying something that has nobody attached to it, since that only happens after hatching, then oh boy I'm disappointed.

Also PS: as others said, people almost immediately jump into it and borderline antag roll. The burning I've seen a handful of times.

What is common however is people letting it become a xeno and then burn it for those sweet sweet organs.

it's basically antag rolling! The admin rulings just don't treat it as such...Hey, that'd be a great policy discussion.

IC issue

It's basically destroying a valuable research specimen and you're liable to the Cap/RD/Xenobiologist/whoever is in charge if you burnt it without their say-so.

Anonmare wrote:IC issue

It's basically destroying a valuable research specimen and you're liable to the Cap/RD/Xenobiologist/whoever is in charge if you burnt it without their say-so.

This, as a miner I saw fellow miners and a borg trying to bring back facehuggers from the Xeno ruin on lavaland under the RD's orders. I welded the lockerx and spaced it as soon as the shuttle left, I ended up getting sent to perma by the RD.

>Science officer not watching the xeno pen like a hawk

The absolute state of modern security

subject217 wrote:xenos are cancer and anyone who permanently removes xenos from a round has made that round objectively better

one day you too will understand this and you will become the person who burns the egg

says the newfag admin

From an in character perspective, why wouldn't you kill the egg that houses a man-hunting space monster?

This is one of those things that polices conflict and forces players to take certain courses of action if it's left to policy.

PKPenguin321 wrote:From an in character perspective, why wouldn't you kill the egg that houses a man-hunting space monster?

Because Nanotrasen wants you to make a profit out of those man-hunting space monsters, if a few no-name stations get lost in the process then so be it.

Anonmare wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:From an in character perspective, why wouldn't you kill the egg that houses a man-hunting space monster?

Because Nanotrasen wants you to make a profit out of those man-hunting space monsters, if a few no-name stations get lost in the process then so be it.

>plasma research facility

SPEED DE-MERGE

because by the time it gets announced a swarm of not scientists and not antags will swarm xenobio to get impreganted

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Anonmare wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:From an in character perspective, why wouldn't you kill the egg that houses a man-hunting space monster?

Because Nanotrasen wants you to make a profit out of those man-hunting space monsters, if a few no-name stations get lost in the process then so be it.

>plasma research facility

>xenos generate plasma internally

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Anonmare wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:From an in character perspective, why wouldn't you kill the egg that houses a man-hunting space monster?

Because Nanotrasen wants you to make a profit out of those man-hunting space monsters, if a few no-name stations get lost in the process then so be it.

>plasma research facility

tbf you're the one who asked for an IC reason :^)

Shadowflame909 wrote:it's basically antag rolling! The admin rulings just don't treat it as such...Hey, that'd be a great policy discussion.

Not really, it's just a chance for a new (to the particular round) type of conflict to occur. That would be different than lavaland roles bumrushing the xeno ruin to implant themselves.

Lumbermancer wrote:Yeah but organs are just for powergaming, not science. Make researching them unlock some special projects or something. Have an aditional step between Xenos and benefits.

Giving them a nice tech web bounty would be a relatively easy step.

Cobby wrote:Giving them a nice tech web bounty would be a relatively easy step.

I would like to see Xenobiology doing fully fledged Xeno farming, like in Alien Ressurection. It could even naturally spin into mode in itself, when shit hits the fan. So much better than dumb griff ghosts, swarmers and other nonsense.

Lumbermancer wrote:

Cobby wrote:Giving them a nice tech web bounty would be a relatively easy step.

I would like to see Xenobiology doing fully fledged Xeno farming, like in Alien Ressurection. It could even naturally spin into mode in itself, when shit hits the fan. So much better than dumb griff ghosts, swarmers and other nonsense.

every round ends in mass death of all crew if this happens

How do you figure if it’s like a 2% chance

i was talking about lumbermancers idea of literally turning xenobio into xenomorph biology by having sentient xeno farming every shift as a main job

No no, I mean when egg happens. So instead slimes they do xeno. Not replace Xeno slime business entirely.

It's extreme greifing in my view. Not to the point where it becomes an OOC issue, but enough to basically make you instantly valid once you do it. Kind of on par with ordering a shitty shuttle.

subject217 wrote:

DrPillzRedux wrote:Yeah let's just destroy something that might actually cause something to happen in a round. God forbid any conflict were to happen in SS13.

You haven't played in over a year. Why even post on this thread? It obviously has nothing to do with you.

>haven't played in over a year

I play at least once a month, thanks. I have rarely plays because I told kor to give it to me over steam messages.

DrPillzRedux wrote:

subject217 wrote:

DrPillzRedux wrote:Yeah let's just destroy something that might actually cause something to happen in a round. God forbid any conflict were to happen in SS13.

You haven't played in over a year. Why even post on this thread? It obviously has nothing to do with you.

>haven't played in over a year

I play at least once a month, thanks. I have rarely plays because I told kor to give it to me over steam messages.

if you play once a month what are the odds youll have played any round with xenos in them for the last year

Is that one ROUND per month or one sitting to play per month, either way these are easy statistics.

Pillz' actual experience in game aside, our rules make it pretty clear that players are entitled to know exactly what the xeno eggs are about, and what exactly they can do. I can't see myself punishing someone for destroying the egg anymore then I can see punishing someone for destroying a swarmer shell or incinerating a corpse they see get bitten by a changeling headslug.

If the egg is such a bad round influence that people are just destroying it every round it appears (which isn't my experience) then ultimately it'd be a code solution to alter the egg's spawn chances, its location, or remove it entirely, not a policy solution to punish people for doing a pretty straightforward thing that falls under common sense.

Tl;dr if you're not a scientist or if you're doing it just to fuck with another scientist and you burn the egg you're valid salid. I doubt we need any other ruling.

Dax Dupont wrote:Tl;dr if you're not a scientist or if you're doing it just to fuck with another scientist and you burn the egg you're valid salid. I doubt we need any other ruling.

Bad ruling. I've gotten spaced by the RD as a miner for tossing xeno facehuggers into hyperspace via the mining shuttle. But I think that's wrong. >Hurr-durr no xeno infestation here just money and powergame everything will go right but it never does.

Is the worst mentality, ever! It always goes wrong, there has never been a round with xeno farming that didn't end with xenos killing everyone.

The only argument I've seen in favor of this is that people love to get free antagonist rolls. I thought coders were anti-conversion because of this same reasoning?

Shadowflame909 wrote:

Dax Dupont wrote:Tl;dr if you're not a scientist or if you're doing it just to fuck with another scientist and you burn the egg you're valid salid. I doubt we need any other ruling.

Bad ruling. I've gotten spaced by the RD as a miner for tossing xeno facehuggers into hyperspace via the mining shuttle. But I think that's wrong. >Hurr-durr no xeno infestation here just money and powergame everything will go right but it never does.

Is the worst mentality, ever! It always goes wrong, there has never been a round with xeno farming that didn't end with xenos killing everyone.

The only argument I've seen in favor of this is that people love to get free antagonist rolls. I thought coders were anti-conversion because of this same reasoning?

So you weren't a scientist and you broke/trespassed into xenobiology, fucked with their shit and you're surprised you got shlonged?

6. You may defend your workplace from trespassers who damage or steal property within that space with significantly greater force than elsewhere. If someone is severely disruptive and returns after ejected, this opens them up to "fun" of the creative workplace death variety

Why are miners always so entitled to everything I'll never know.

Dax Dupont wrote:

Shadowflame909 wrote:

Dax Dupont wrote:Tl;dr if you're not a scientist or if you're doing it just to fuck with another scientist and you burn the egg you're valid salid. I doubt we need any other ruling.

snap

So you weren't a scientist and you broke/trespassed into xenobiology, fucked with their shit and you're surprised you got shlonged?

6. You may defend your workplace from trespassers who damage or steal property within that space with significantly greater force than elsewhere. If someone is severely disruptive and returns after ejected, this opens them up to "fun" of the creative workplace death variety

Why are miners always so entitled to everything I'll never know.

No idoit I was a miner who saw a mining borg and fellow miners bringing back facehuggers in a locker from lavaland to the station under the RDs orders. Which I then promptly spaced as soon as the shuttle left. This brings up a good question though. Since that rule can clearly be abused via "This item is in my jurisdiction now try to stop me and prepare to get non antag griffed by the rules" I don't like this way of thinking dax, spawning a singulo in the middle of science and then tiding people who try to stop you wouldn't make any sense. So why should it be ok here?

Shadowflame909 wrote:

Dax Dupont wrote:

Shadowflame909 wrote:

Dax Dupont wrote:Tl;dr if you're not a scientist or if you're doing it just to fuck with another scientist and you burn the egg you're valid salid. I doubt we need any other ruling.

snap

So you weren't a scientist and you broke/trespassed into xenobiology, fucked with their shit and you're surprised you got shlonged?

6. You may defend your workplace from trespassers who damage or steal property within that space with significantly greater force than elsewhere. If someone is severely disruptive and returns after ejected, this opens them up to "fun" of the creative workplace death variety

Why are miners always so entitled to everything I'll never know.

No idoit I was a miner who saw a mining borg and fellow miners bringing back facehuggers in a locker from lavaland to the station under the RDs orders. Which I then promptly spaced as soon as the shuttle left. This brings up a good question though. Since that rule can clearly be abused via "This item is in my jurisdiction now try to stop me and prepare to get non antag griffed by the rules" I don't like this way of thinking dax, spawning a singulo in the middle of science and then tiding people who try to stop you wouldn't make any sense. So why should it be ok here?

this thread is literally about xeno eggs spawning in xenobio, if you're bringing back xenos from lavaland you don't have /any/ real protection under the workplace clausule. Mining shuttle is not a science workplace.

Also don't bother with hyperbole memes because these things are always to be taking within a certain moderation. The whole OH SO THAT MEANS I CAN DO X is the best way to get an admin groan because people are too dumb to understand it's not just black/white but a whole spectrum of colors.

I'll boil it down to this simple drawing, I've tried my best to emulate a 5 year old to keep it simple.

What do you mean by "doing it to be a cunt" If the scientist kills the egg. That the RD wanted to powergame with the RD's gonna treat him valid 100 percent of the time. Along with the xenobiologist who enjoys seeing xenos break out.

Also tbh, I'd much rather always jump into xenobio and kill the egg. I enjoy long rounds and don't want everything to die 30 minutes in, Dax. Frequent lavaland xeno rounds have really caused me to despise such a overpowered antagonist that was built to end rounds. Yet can appear very early into it with multiple ways to do so.

Shadowflame909 wrote:What do you mean by "doing it to be a cunt" If the scientist kills the egg. That the RD wanted to powergame with the RD's gonna treat him valid 100 percent of the time. Along with the xenobiologist who enjoys seeing xenos break out.

Also tbh, I'd much rather always jump into xenobio and kill the egg. I enjoy long rounds and don't want everything to die 30 minutes in, Dax. Frequent lavaland xeno rounds have really caused me to despise such a overpowered antagonist that was built to end rounds. Yet can appear very early into it with multiple ways to do so.

read the quote please I can't make it more simple

I can respect that.

Dax Dupont wrote:

Shadowflame909 wrote:ahh.

read the quote please I can't make it more simple

It's not a ruling yet, fam. Xenos are hostile organisms that are by definition round enders. If killing them will make me as valid as "woody got wood" like you want them to be. Then prepare for anti-xeno players to become the most abusers of there valid status by definition. Like creating solo-revs for stopping a round-ending antag