/tg/Station 13

had a rev round where someone intentionally disconnected right before being converted, they weren't converted due to that. nothing came of it. i ahelped mostly out of curiosity on the topic and it seems there's nothing set in stone regarding it. A similar thing can be done against cult but it turns you into a soulstone and offered to ghosts instead of just entirely not working. Would this be an issue that could be coded around, or an administration issue?

Probably depends on what you want the outcome to be. If the person came back, then a code change to make the body waiting for them be Rev would probably suffice. But there's no amount of code that can pull someone back in, and if you want to fix people just leaving and not returning, a policy of banning people who do this would be necessary.

Honestly, not being able to convert a disconnected player sounds more like a bug that should be reported than anything else. Otherwise, leaving isn't fundamentally different to just ghosting, except that ghosting is clearer to any admins watching that the body can be offered to other ghosts.

I don't think there's any value in forcing people to play something they don't enjoy.

We can't solve human behaviour and attempting to do so is madness.

I had an admin talk to me after ghosting out after being culted once. I dislike cult rounds, and playing cult, but some people do enjoy it. I voluntarily asked to be cult banned so if and when I do get culted someone who likes to play cult gets to play in my stead.

As a player, this is probably the best way to handle these cases. Ask if they want to be voluntarily banned so other people can play. It functionally is the same but people who enjoy the role can play, and if they want to play rev again they can just ask an admin to unban then.

If they refuse and still do it, then they are just kind of being an asshole.

kill them if they disconnect lol

oranges wrote:I don't think there's any value in forcing people to play something they don't enjoy.

We can't solve human behaviour and attempting to do so is madness.

there's tactical value to this action, though. if the round was particularly chaotic or the headrev just wasn't diligent, you could easily use the reconnect verb while on stims or something to avoid conversion and pop up a few seconds later and kill the headrev. Sure you could blame whoever for not killing the person while they were logged out, but is this the type of thing that should exist or be allowed to do as a game mechanic? It seems excessively OOC in my eyes.

Dr_bee wrote:I had an admin talk to me after ghosting out after being culted once. I dislike cult rounds, and playing cult, but some people do enjoy it. I voluntarily asked to be cult banned so if and when I do get culted someone who likes to play cult gets to play in my stead.

As a player, this is probably the best way to handle these cases. Ask if they want to be voluntarily banned so other people can play. It functionally is the same but people who enjoy the role can play, and if they want to play rev again they can just ask an admin to unban then.

If they refuse and still do it, then they are just kind of being an asshole.

I too asked to be cult banned and I agree, however the problem here seems to be people disconnecting before conversion because mobs with no client can't be converted

The inability to convert disconnected mobs isn't a bug, at a guess, but rather an intentional decision to stop i.e. cults from converting braindeads to fulfil number requirements with no effort.

if this becomes punishable, will there be a grace period or some leniency on first offenses since you can't really tell if it's an epic gamer doing the hot new strat or simply someone's internet going down?

imsxz wrote:had a rev round where someone intentionally disconnected right before being converted, they weren't converted due to that. nothing came of it. i ahelped mostly out of curiosity on the topic and it seems there's nothing set in stone regarding it. A similar thing can be done against cult but it turns you into a soulstone and offered to ghosts instead of just entirely not working. Would this be an issue that could be coded around, or an administration issue?

this seems like something more trouble than it's worth to do for some kind of tactical advantage, at least with respect to rev rounds

I dont like being a rev either but 99% of the time I just get converted and fuck off and keep doing my own thing/job unless theres something painfully obvious I could do like bash some head's skull with a toolbox if they slip right next to me.

if you're worried about this, seems like a simple ic solution is to just kill the person when they do this. a useless rev is indistinguishable from a dead one, and someone who is converted who doesnt want to be a rev will be useless.

From a purely administrative standpoint, it’s not right of us to punish people to avoid conversion. If they choose to not play that round, that is entirely their decision. This is not to say that you can disconnect as team antag without consequence - we at least expect an ahelp if you’re going to do that. However, to avoid conversion entirely through a disconnect is obviously not something that we will punish for.

This problem is best solved with a code solution, where braindead mobs that get flashed by a revhead get offered up to ghosts if they’ve been AFK for X amount of time.

Imagine disconnecting yourself specifically for the purpose of giving up a chance at being an antag/having permission to act like an antag.

In all seriousness, we should probably turn this into an issue on Github.

The thing about disconnecting is that it has a chance of being due to real life shit, which is always more important than a game of 2D spaceman roleplay on an outdated platform that isn't even persistent. Punishing someone then finding out they disconnected because, like, their house caught fire or their cat died or they started projectile vomiting seems way worse than not punishing someone who disconnected to avoid conversion.

That said, to be fair to the other player, it would be nice if there were some kind of mechanism to make it easier to spot people who need ghosts in them. (Nervere's idea seems good.)

Bumping this because I disagree with a lot of posters.

"From a purely administrative standpoint, it’s not right of us to punish people to avoid conversion."

This is wrong.

If you have to disconnect for whatever reason immediately w/o informing the admin, then you can eat the role ban and talk it out when you get back ingame or on the forums. The odds of something happening immediately as you're about to get converted that you can't f1 "replace me g2g" is pretty slim.

If you don't want to play a specific conversion antagonist, we have bans literally just for that you can ask an admin for. This will not only allow you to not have to play the role, but also allow someone else to go in your place. Flashes and Cult Disabling devices have limited charges, so having your efforts wasted because the player "doesn't like the mode" or whatever is a pretty cruddy excuse.

The only code situation I can see is that the conversion antag pref be changed to roundstart on/roundstart off/never (never acting like a true opt-in ban w/o need for the admin middleman).

If the mode is in rotation, a player who dislikes said mode has three options.

1) Ask for it to be removed from rotation
2) PR changes to the mode to address their grievance
3) Accept that this server is running the mode and play it/turn off in prefs/ask for a roleban

There should be no wiggle room in that third option that allows them to undermine those ICly who ARE trying to play the mode.

Disconnecting because you don't want to play as a conversion antag is 100% fine. You can't force people to play a role they don't want to play.

Disconnecting to avoid conversion, then logging back in so you can rat out the antag or fight them is shitty and waaaaaaay to tryhard for a space theme autism simulator

I think it's really funny to imagine people here trying to figure out how to weaponize disconnecting mid combat for their own benefit so often that it becomes a problem. Like, that's such a bizarre "WHAT IF" where someone notices the revhead milling around the research department lobby, then they see the little tiny sprite of a flash appear, and their stomach just drops and they scramble for the red X as fast as they can rather than just run away or try to disarm them

Are you people actually humans because sometimes your thought processes make me wonder

It's a /tg/ server. If there is an efficient and reliable method that guarantees a positive outcome within the rules, players will favor it over another.

Offering up to ghosts is probably a bad idea unless there's some way to check if the mob was controlled by a player at roundstart and not just in the middle of the round. You could pretty much infinitely produce bodies for ghosts to play as.

It might be neat though if someone converted decided they didn't want to play if they could just release control to ghosts after ghosting / disconnecting / whatever, and it could pretty much show up as a mob spawner until someone took it.

The only problem I see with this is people who are the type of people to disconnect as soon as they find out the round type instead of being converted and then quitting.

I wonder if there should be a blanket option where if a person decides they have to disconnect as a head or as a normal assistant, etc pretty much anything, they can choose an option where their body can be possessed as a ling type of thing where you get their previous speech patterns etc. It would be in a menu type system like mob spawners so pretty much anyone can take it at any time.

It could be neat considering this is a roleplaying game and exactly like mob spawners already work, people could be banned from possessing bodies so it wouldn't be too different from stuff we already have that people abuse.

It is a pretty big change though and I probably wouldn't code it unless I felt like it really improved the quality of life of the game so let me know what you think.

As for being banned from roles specifically as an alternative, this should probably not be something that you have to go through with an admin to do.

Still remains the issue of people who instantly disconnect once they hear "revs" over the radio though. Not liking the game type isn't implicitly related to being converted it might just be how the gamemode plays out in general.

WarbossLincoln wrote:Disconnecting because you don't want to play as a conversion antag is 100% fine. You can't force people to play a role they don't want to play.

Disconnecting to avoid conversion, then logging back in so you can rat out the antag or fight them is shitty and waaaaaaay to tryhard for a space theme autism simulator

To clarify, disconnecting because you don't want to play as conv antag is 100% fine IF you let the admins know you are leaving and are a convert/just about to be converted. Anyone weaponizing that, even if they don't return, is poor sportsmanship and should be treated as a rule 1 violation.

Shaps-cloud wrote:I think it's really funny to imagine people here trying to figure out how to weaponize disconnecting mid combat for their own benefit so often that it becomes a problem. Like, that's such a bizarre "WHAT IF" where someone notices the revhead milling around the research department lobby, then they see the little tiny sprite of a flash appear, and their stomach just drops and they scramble for the red X as fast as they can rather than just run away or try to disarm them

Are you people actually humans because sometimes your thought processes make me wonder

It's probably a lesser issue with instant conversions and more of an issue with say cult where you're stunned and have to be pulled to a certain location. In reality though this has to be a rare occurrence, I don't recall any instance of an issue like this coming up while i've adminned outside of forum theorycrafting ofc.

If there's evidence (e.g. they were stupid as hell and said "fuck this I'm disconnecting" then I could see grounds for punishment as the person is obviously just doing it to fuck over the antag. In the alternative, if they're doing it to avoid the round type because they just really have that vicious of an allergy to cult then cultban them. It removes them from the round they don't want anyway and gives the body a ghost that will.

This seems pretty straight forward.