/tg/Station 13

On MRP antags adhere to a more creative ruleset, to keep the round interesting, and to keep RP alive.

So this means mass murderbone is wack there.

Thus, I feel like similar treatment should be FORCED upon detained antags as well.

The ruling would be as simple as this.

Dont Be a Dick Antag Edition: Unless NO ALTERNATIVES EXIST. (Like such in the case of Changelings and Nuke-OPs.) Detained Antagonists should not be removed from the round, and should instead face growing restrictions.

Why? We have a shitload of ways to keep players in the round, and harsher punishments for those that rebel with more getting added every day.

1. Prison-Cuffs

2. Straight-Jackets

3. Electropack

4. Pacifism Surgery

5. Chemical Implants (You get lethal injections for this!)

6. Borging.

7. Brainwashing.

Permanent round removal doesn't have to be an option on MRP unless it's the only option.

why shadowflame made this thread:

Nah, I was an antagonist (they didn't know) who tresspassed 2 times in a row for an EVA hardsuit (Twice. Dropped it upon first arrest in robotics, so I came back and then got me again) and got arrested initially for taking a devil deal from the HoP, so warden Perma'd me under his 3 strikes ruling.

Captain wanted to execute me there, but he knew he'd have gotten banned. So he just walked in perma with me and the other perma prisoners.

Then he walks out, I follow in an attempt to escape.

I make it one step out the door, he shouts "EXECUTION TIME" and then stun, cuffs, and drags me into the execution room where he proceeds to unload on me with a sketchin pistol, and then throw me out of an airlock.

It aint easy being MRP cheesy.

Captain wanted to execute me there, but he knew he'd have gotten banned. So he just walked in perma with me and the other perma prisoners.

Then he walks out, I follow in an attempt to escape.

I make it one step out the door, he shouts "EXECUTION TIME" and then stun, cuffs, and drags me into the execution room where he proceeds to unload on me with a sketchin pistol, and then throw me out of an airlock.

Wow, what a fucking B A S E D captain.

dont walk next time????

Sportmanship goes both ways.

The captain permas you instead of shooting you down, and in return you comply with the imprisonment until you find an interesting way to escape.
If you just try to abuse the mercy of your captor (enforced by rules or not) by immediately trying to slip out, you're just communicating that giving you any leniency will not result in interesting rp situations, but only more headaches.

We sorta have a rule to fit this already in theory:

6. Be kind to the bad guys.
Because antagonists are often the driving force for most rounds, some amount of goodwill should be extended to them. Basically, try to interact and communicate with antagonists and try to create an exciting narrative, rather than, say, immediately laser them to death when you see them. Communication and dialogue are expected on both ends (although not necessarily required.)

I think the difficulty comes across in how to interpret it. Its also harder when spacelaw says such absolutes. Maybe a revised spacelaw could be written? Like something more corporate that suggests where good business lies exceptions could be made or something? Im not really sure, just spit balling here.

In all the forum threads i've seen so far space law seems to be mostly cited to justify executing valids (since antags, regardless of their actions during the round, fall under "enemy of the corporation").

If it was rewritten, the best solution is probably going to be fuzzy suggestions, open to interpretation (e.g. Theft: "ranging from stern warning to long-term detainment depending on the gravity of the theft"). And ideally discouraging execution as a tactic, since it's obviously the best move for "winning" the game, but stifles any form of potentially fun interactions between security and antags.

XDTM wrote:In all the forum threads i've seen so far space law seems to be mostly cited to justify executing valids (since antags, regardless of their actions during the round, fall under "enemy of the corporation").

If it was rewritten, the best solution is probably going to be fuzzy suggestions, open to interpretation (e.g. Theft: "ranging from stern warning to long-term detainment depending on the gravity of the theft"). And ideally discouraging execution as a tactic, since it's obviously the best move for "winning" the game, but stifles any form of potentially fun interactions between security and antags.

I don't play manuel and have no interest in playing on manuel, but if you're using space law as a justification for antag execution, you should be holding a trial. The intention of the rule is to create a narrative and a trial let's you do that while still possibly executing them, maybe you could even let them go if you don't have very strong evidence.

SkeletalElite wrote:

XDTM wrote:In all the forum threads i've seen so far space law seems to be mostly cited to justify executing valids (since antags, regardless of their actions during the round, fall under "enemy of the corporation").

If it was rewritten, the best solution is probably going to be fuzzy suggestions, open to interpretation (e.g. Theft: "ranging from stern warning to long-term detainment depending on the gravity of the theft"). And ideally discouraging execution as a tactic, since it's obviously the best move for "winning" the game, but stifles any form of potentially fun interactions between security and antags.

I don't play manuel and have no interest in playing on manuel, but if you're using space law as a justification for antag execution, you should be holding a trial. The intention of the rule is to create a narrative and a trial let's you do that while still possibly executing them, maybe you could even let them go if you don't have very strong evidence.

There was a round last night where an "Anyone dictated as hostile by command/security is not human" law was uploaded to the AI by the Cap. The HoP disagreed that this was a good law after some arguing and back-and-forther he proceeded to tell the AI "everyone but me is hostile" to prove a point or make an example, which effectively made him one human the AI. This law was quickly removed and reworded and the HoP arrested / perma'd pending trial. The trial was a shitshow, but it was a good RP exercise and the HoP was eventually just demoted.

Space law states that "Trials may be performed for Capital Crimes and Permanent Detention, however there is no requirement to hold them." - I'd be interested in a trial removing this highlighted part from MRP and mandating trials for capital crimes where Command is looking to "harm" (anything from forced pacification to borging to execution) as a punishment or impose permanent detention, although perma isn't so bad now with prisoner roles around.

It may lead to an antag handing themselves in (or, in other words, putting down their arms and surrendering to security if cornered) if there is a guarantee to a trial (although the fairness and impartiality of such a trial is not guaranteed) that may enable them to greentext later on or at least not have a round-ending outcome. Or at least I feel it would lead to increased interaction between antags and the rest of the crew that has more RP elements. Afterall, if you murder someone and you're 99% guaranteed to be executed, why not just... Keep murdering?

Also, the trial doesn't necessarily have to be about guilt or innocence; the antag could plead guilty to the associated charges and instead attempt to mitigate their sentence through extenuating circumstances, history of help to the station, general RP down from execution to something less sever. Plea bargaining and other dark American-esque tactics become available to avoid lengthy trials; "If you accept guilt to this lesser crime instead, we'll perma you instead of trying you for murder and treason then executing you?"

I just think it would pull in more interaction in a positive way.