/tg/Station 13

I had my first tator round with the steal SM sliver objective. It tells me to wear protective gear, so I put on a rad suit and... touched it I guess. I did not know it would turn you into dust because I never tried it before. I was informed after I died that I was supposed to use a special scalpel in my box. I think the objective should also inform you of the scalpel as well as wearing protective gear. It would be a little fix and probably save some others from wasting their tator rounds like I did and feel like a goof. I almost made it delaminate though so that was cool.

MemeBaron wrote:I had my first tator round with the steal SM sliver objective. It tells me to wear protective gear, so I put on a rad suit and... touched it I guess. I did not know it would turn you into dust because I never tried it before. I was informed after I died that I was supposed to use a special scalpel in my box. I think the objective should also inform you of the scalpel as well as wearing protective gear. It would be a little fix and probably save some others from wasting their tator rounds like I did and feel like a goof. I almost made it delaminate though so that was cool.

I'm fairly certain that the toolkit you get along with the objective comes with a note explaining how to use it. Might be misremembering though.

I don't remember anything like that. I'm just suggesting a small text change in the objective like "wear protective gear and use the tool smuggled into your oxygen box." I think that would prevent any confusion, because I thought it was suggesting all I needed was the rad suit so I rushed into the SM before anyone turned it on. I figured I should have looked it up, but it sounded simple.

Yeah, there is a paper in the kit.

I like how the word "safely" is there in the first sentence, as if it has any meaning within that list of steps.

This isn't really a matter of policy but rather a code change, not even code really, just description text. I encourage you to submit a PR with the respective change yourself, pretty sure this sort of thing would just get waved through if you explained the why in the PR.
Also massively lowers the barrier for any future changes you might wish to contribute : )

I didn't read the instructions and I died, please change the game to fix this

I'm the one who wrote the instructions, I don't mean this in a rude way but which part of it isn't clear enough?

they didn't notice they had the box in the first place.

PEBKAC

bandit wrote:I'm the one who wrote the instructions, I don't mean this in a rude way but which part of it isn't clear enough?

I appreciate the instructions. I vaguely remember there was a point in time that didn't have as clear of instructions and I dusted my equipment and was mad.

It's really easy to fuck up this objective and most people get dusted the first time they attempt it.

That's largely the point of it.

capn_monkeypaw wrote:It's really easy to fuck up this objective and most people get dusted the first time they attempt it.

That's largely the point of it.

That's kind of a stupid point to be honest - "you didn't know the instant death mechanic existed so instant death for you do not collect $100 you will not be revived" just sucks for the only person involved (the guy getting instant death'd). Just make the supermatter objective tell you "instructions are in a box you have in your bag" or something like that and you leave enough breadcrumbs to follow without having to look it up or get told that you start with the tool box.

Coming from someone who did it right the first time.

This game is not fair. Its learning curve is brutal. You die all the time for dumb reasons. This objective doesn't need to have its corners rounded off.

XivilaiAnaxes wrote:

capn_monkeypaw wrote:It's really easy to fuck up this objective and most people get dusted the first time they attempt it.

That's largely the point of it.

That's kind of a stupid point to be honest - "you didn't know the instant death mechanic existed so instant death for you do not collect $100 you will not be revived" just sucks for the only person involved (the guy getting instant death'd). Just make the supermatter objective tell you "instructions are in a box you have in your bag" or something like that and you leave enough breadcrumbs to follow without having to look it up or get told that you start with the tool box.

Coming from someone who did it right the first time.

If you don't notice the super obvious red-and-black box in the thing you open every time you need to store stuff you deserve to get dusted.

When I first joined one of the first concepts I got down was that the singularity was the big bad that you die instantly to, no questions asked. I assume it's pretty much the same deal with people who join the game and see the supermatter

capn_monkeypaw wrote:This game is not fair. Its learning curve is brutal. You die all the time for dumb reasons. This objective doesn't need to have its corners rounded off.

god am i glad you dont code. There's a difference between fairness and half-decent game design.

To be fair, if he did code he'd probably realise "heh you weren't aware this thing I suggested you interact with causes instant death because I didn't tell you beforehand so you lose (which means I win)" is a design trope used by neckbeards with power fantasies.

Qustinnus wrote:

capn_monkeypaw wrote:This game is not fair. Its learning curve is brutal. You die all the time for dumb reasons. This objective doesn't need to have its corners rounded off.

god am i glad you dont code. There's a difference between fairness and half-decent game design.

Instructions are literally in the box with the item in it. If the player read the instructions (which aren't even hidden on the wiki like a lot of things that can kill you are), then they wouldn't have died. I would call that decent game design.

First time I had this objective I nearly died of radiation poisoning and was a bartender. I also emagged in and used mag boots as I had reasoned that all the air flow would result in me being pushed into the crystal.

And yes I read the instructions. I also read the wiki and gleamed some info on the supermatter while I was doing bar rp. Whike it isn't entirely up to date we should really encourage our players to read the wiki more.

Basically when you open the door to the SM the atmos will push you forward 1 tile because it was previously devoid of air and you are standing somewhere with a lot of air. If you let it push you 1 tile forward or at least wait a few seconds for the pressure to equalize, and THEN moving, you’ll be fine. It won’t push you in under normal circumstances, the only issues coming from gravitational anomalies and exceptionally high differences in pressure. As for radiation, contamination is aids but there is a 100% way to solve it but I’m too lazy to type it on my phone, it involves the hardsuit storage chambers and the decontamination button.

edit: yes it’s not new player friendly but the issues aren’t with the objective, it’s with radiation mechanics being really dumb in how unintuitive it is to properly clean and remove them. As for atmos shoving you or your SM sliver around, it says to be careful so that you don’t die, if you knowingly go too fast and misclick or misstep it isn’t the objectives fault, it was you being reckless. I’d argue that this objective is a fair bit easier to grasp for new players than “steal a f
functional ai”, which doesn’t help at all if you don’t know what intelicards are.

Don’t get me started on stealing research node objective either. That’s probably the objective I have the most ahelps about, with noobs AND experienced players both ahelping with a relatively high frequency asking what they need to do.

Hey guys so I put my ikea table together without reading the instructions and the legs are upside down please can I fix this?

oranges wrote:Hey guys so I put my ikea table together without reading the instructions and the legs are upside down please can I fix this?

hmm yeah im thinking it's defective send it back to ikea

the objective does mention something like "use safety equipment" but doesn't spell out to RTFM, I guess I can change it if we ever get github back

Qustinnus wrote:

capn_monkeypaw wrote:This game is not fair. Its learning curve is brutal. You die all the time for dumb reasons. This objective doesn't need to have its corners rounded off.

god am i glad you dont code. There's a difference between fairness and half-decent game design.

What's so terrible about having one or a couple of objectives that are markedly harder and unforgiving than others?

Hijack is hard, stealing the disk (usually) is hard. Stealing the crystal can be kind of unforgiving in actually surviving the chamber, the problem is the game doesn't give you the breadcrumbs to find the toolbox that exists purely for this objective unless you specifically notice the box happens to be in your inventory.

There's a vast difference between "this objective is hard" and "this objective doesn't tell you what to do". Stealing research nodes is honestly worse in this case but the game doesn't automatically disintegrate you for touching an rnd console the wrong way.

To use Oranges dumb take, it would be if the instruction manual was was hidden inside one of the pieces and you had to be an IKEA fan to know they did it because they didn't want 'smoothbrains' figuring out their furniture.

imsxz wrote:Basically when you open the door to the SM the atmos will push you forward 1 tile because it was previously devoid of air and you are standing somewhere with a lot of air. If you let it push you 1 tile forward or at least wait a few seconds for the pressure to equalize, and THEN moving, you’ll be fine. It won’t push you in under normal circumstances, the only issues coming from gravitational anomalies and exceptionally high differences in pressure. As for radiation, contamination is aids but there is a 100% way to solve it but I’m too lazy to type it on my phone, it involves the hardsuit storage chambers and the decontamination button.

edit: yes it’s not new player friendly but the issues aren’t with the objective, it’s with radiation mechanics being really dumb in how unintuitive it is to properly clean and remove them. As for atmos shoving you or your SM sliver around, it says to be careful so that you don’t die, if you knowingly go too fast and misclick or misstep it isn’t the objectives fault, it was you being reckless. I’d argue that this objective is a fair bit easier to grasp for new players than “steal a f
functional ai”, which doesn’t help at all if you don’t know what intelicards are.

Don’t get me started on stealing research node objective either. That’s probably the objective I have the most ahelps about, with noobs AND experienced players both ahelping with a relatively high frequency asking what they need to do.

Just steal magboots to avoid the air pressure memes

capn_monkeypaw wrote:

Qustinnus wrote:

capn_monkeypaw wrote:This game is not fair. Its learning curve is brutal. You die all the time for dumb reasons. This objective doesn't need to have its corners rounded off.

god am i glad you dont code. There's a difference between fairness and half-decent game design.

What's so terrible about having one or a couple of objectives that are markedly harder and unforgiving than others?

being unclear and vague is not the same as being harder or more challenging. being vague and unclear without having good in-game methods of learning besides dying is bad game design.

it's not vague though, it's clearly spelled out, this guy just failed to read the instructions

This isn't a policy issue - if you believe the objective is too hard or the provided instructions are too vague, I suggest proposing changes in the coding section of the forum.

Locking this since it's meandering with no real goal in sight.