/tg/Station 13

Nobody gives what pretense you are making up in your echo chamber discord.
The test has failed and 2 bb teams every round is boring now.
Secret or rotation thereof. It's a failed experiment with rotation going;
Murderbone, people leave, WHY POP SO LOW; MURDERBONE, people leave, WHY POP SO LOW; ad nauseam.
And it's not recovering from it, no admins exist and like 10 statics are murdering each other and the gimmick is done and there is no surprise or paranoia anymore.
Uninteresting and copy-paste.

While we are at it, remove that snowflake syndie shuttle (haha i can make PRs höhö) metagrief engine from space, it was vapid idea, thanks.

Input from people that don't exist on bagil go below this.

I liked it when there was a population, but it's kinda meh when there's less than 20 people.

I feel like dynamic lowpop is the problem. There is almost always only blood brothers and it gets boring real fast. I like dynamic, but i feel like dynamic has to be tweaked instead of just turning it off.

Update;
"we should all disable BB maybe so we don't get BB so much"
said a retard in OOC;
and statics agreed.

Game mode truncated by tired players. Oops. Wonder when we disable the next antag. And then another.

Just close Sybil and put Bagil on the hub we really don't need two servers when one is always dead

or just run at certain populations. it's agreed that dynamic does great work at higher pops

Anuv wrote:Just close Sybil and put Bagil on the hub we really don't need two servers when one is always dead

if one server is alive and the other is dead why would you close the non deadpop one

Armhulen wrote:it's agreed that dynamic does great work at higher pops

>bagil never goes above 30 even on accident

Hmm. I know it's a pref you can toggle and it's a done experiment. It does not work as intended and seems to cause that pop drop if left on 24/7-

I definitely don't think dynamic should be removed as it provides some really great shifts at higher pop. But when it is ~20 people it literally only gives two teams of blood brothers consistently and it gets pretty damn old. #makebagilgreatagain

I'll try to log onto Bagil more often and change the gamemode up a bit. Since it's so low pop it might be a good idea to have it on secret until it gets to be 35+.

Bagil deserves its fate, the jannies created a dumb community there and now they pay the price.
Edit: as in people moved to greener pastures.

BeeSting12 wrote:I'll try to log onto Bagil more often and change the gamemode up a bit. Since it's so low pop it might be a good idea to have it on secret until it gets to be 35+.

why not right now tho?

Remove sbyil from hub, put bagil on hub. Now bagil is playable with dynamic.

why would you need traitors when people use revolvers on 5 P O P

Armhulen wrote:or just run at certain populations. it's agreed that dynamic does great work at higher pops

Anuv wrote:Just close Sybil and put Bagil on the hub we really don't need two servers when one is always dead

if one server is alive and the other is dead why would you close the non deadpop one

No one plays on either Bagil or Sibyl on purpose they just chose the most populated on which is Sybil atm. closing Sybil and putting on Bagil on dynamic would fix it all

dynamic will replace secret they said

Anuv wrote:...and putting on Bagil on dynamic would fix it all

>Input from people that don't exist on bagil.
>>put bagil on dynamic
>>>Thread is called; Swap Bagil off 24/7 Dynamic, by bagil player who never leaves it and quotes players to tell you how it is.
>>>>Bagilities are turning off antag prefs to fix it. (doesn't work by the by)
>>>>>"i don't play on bagil but WE SHOULD PUT BAGIL ON DYNAMIC"
>>>>>>I am in pain.

oranges wrote:dynamic will replace secret they said

Dunno it's a step in the right direction when it comes to how stuff works but just simply refuses to rotate to anything but Blood Brother spam below 20 pop. Neither is correct or perfect. Just swap the secret and dynamic of sybil and bagil, see how it goes if you absolutely must have more data to prove you are wrong about it.
We'll see in couple of months.

inb4 i quote beeman about not swapping it like he promised.

24/7 Dynamic is the reason I left bagil for sybil. It causes rounds to pretty much run at a breakneck pace and gets old quickly. Dynamic in a normal rotation would be fine; it does mix things up and helps combat the idea that "it's revs" means the other heads are 100% trustworthy. But 24/7 Dynamic is too much.

If the solution is as easy as "just reconfig it", please provide what you'd like to see in the configuration

Dynamic is the only reason I even play Bagil and due to the amount of people in it the game mode is only BB or Traitor, it's fun if it gets players, the only reason it doesn't have players is people flock to the high pop server which any server you put on the hub is gonna be high pop.

I've wondered if people avoid bagil due to stigma. IE how everyone over there is so keen on getting into fights and trashing the station. But thepop has shifted, driving them to places like Terry and Sybil. And even Manuel on highpop

Cobby wrote:If the solution is as easy as "just reconfig it", please provide what you'd like to see in the configuration

if the solution is to let people configure it, please provide documentation on your configuration code you filthy coder so i don't stare random bs.

I was talking about config admins rant about when this is brought up and how "everything is really easy to configure".
If pure code is an option, give documentation and COMMENT YOUR CODE.

Otherwise i suggest a rng number from 1 to 100 in every slot and you have to be happy with it then.

Super filthy coder doesn't comment his code and then acts all smart about "haha i can code". I can paste you code lines too from Civ 4 with comments removed and then tell you to configure it. Psfft. They tell you to add comments on the first 101 course to coding, how can you be this silly cobby. HOW. *eyeroll*

i didnt code nor merge dynamic nor do I expect editing a config to be flaunting my coder status aka the fact I've looked at a few DM files and post on github (woah woah dont flaunt it too much!).

if you're saying it's difficult to configure, im not sure why people don't bring that up prior to me suggesting people should put more thought in their 2 cents by proposing actual values.

If you can't even properly propose the changes because how to configure it is unclear, i'm not sure how you are expecting headmins, who you should assume have similar knowledge to you, to be able to do so.

Reeeee wrote:

Cobby wrote:If the solution is as easy as "just reconfig it", please provide what you'd like to see in the configuration

if the solution is to let people configure it, please provide documentation on your configuration code you filthy coder so i don't stare random bs.

I was talking about config admins rant about when this is brought up and how "everything is really easy to configure".
If pure code is an option, give documentation and COMMENT YOUR CODE.

Otherwise i suggest a rng number from 1 to 100 in every slot and you have to be happy with it then.

Super filthy coder doesn't comment his code and then acts all smart about "haha i can code". I can paste you code lines too from Civ 4 with comments removed and then tell you to configure it. Psfft. They tell you to add comments on the first 101 course to coding, how can you be this silly cobby. HOW. *eyeroll*

Well you could start by looking at the documentation. Which can be located at our documentation site. Where we keep our documentation.

Main mode vars:
http://codedocs.tgstation13.org/datum/g ... namic.html
Ruleset vars:
http://codedocs.tgstation13.org/datum/d ... leset.html

Default values found here:
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... es/dynamic

or, it takes one min two seconds to press a button and we don't need to discuss code.

How about dat.

> self inserts about a comment I said in response to a comment that I dont think they even remotely said, proceeds to claim im flaunting for telling people to propose more tangible values than just "just tweak it"
> another post directing them to the way to properly config it (again, assuming they wanted to tweak it to begin with), showing that it is infact documented (although again not my code)
> Doesn't even apologize, just goes "well or we can just do the solution that I had initially proposed rather than the one I didn't but self-inserted anyways"

fuck off

Jack7D1 wrote:I've wondered if people avoid bagil due to stigma. IE how everyone over there is so keen on getting into fights and trashing the station. But thepop has shifted, driving them to places like Terry and Sybil. And even Manuel on highpop

people have been avoiding bagil because the other servers get population first. server population is a thing that self reinforces because nobody likes to play on lowpop. pop only shifts during times where large amounts of people log off within a few rounds(such as during business hours during whatever timezone the server players are generally from). the only sort of thing that fixes this is enough people staying committed to playing on deadpop at abnormal hours so that they are able to attract the population magnets that join at more sensible hours. there is no good easy solution to it.

as for dynamic, blood brothers is the sole thing that ruins it. i get the idea of blood brothers and it works very well under certain circumstances; if you get a partner that works well with you and you are able to accomplish whatever goal you had set out, it can be some of the most fun ss13 ever. Unfortunately, it usually turns into 1 experienced player murderboning while ignoring their blood brother, OR nothing at all(at least from the perspective on an observer)

Cobby wrote: fuck off

Wants bagil off dynamic.
is given code i can't do anything with since coders keep PRs separate and behind acceptance wall and wait time and we are not allowed to discuss code in policy anyway since it's coder specific something something normies can't touch.
Admin shows up and swaps bagil off dynamic to secret in a hot second.
Cobby hates me for not liking his "code it yourself approach".

Cool.

oranges wrote:dynamic will replace secret they said

the problem was offering non-dynamic servers

Cobby wrote:> self inserts about a comment I said in response to a comment that I dont think they even remotely said, proceeds to claim im flaunting for telling people to propose more tangible values than just "just tweak it"
> another post directing them to the way to properly config it (again, assuming they wanted to tweak it to begin with), showing that it is infact documented (although again not my code)
> Doesn't even apologize, just goes "well or we can just do the solution that I had initially proposed rather than the one I didn't but self-inserted anyways"

fuck off

Hi Cobby, on page https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... art.dm#L54 I would suggest to change the var under Blood Brothers high_population_requirement to 25 or 30 from 15.

I think blood brothers works okay on lowpop but there should be an equal chance of having traitors. Those are the only two antags (beside lings I guess) that work well on lowpop.

I am as far as I know the last one to touch dynamic weights and requirements. The numbers for the basic scaling antags were a wild guess, and I left further adjustments up to headmins in the configs. I have tried to make that happen for at least half a year, and I'm not very confident it will happen any time soon.

The issues I see currently:
-Threat costs are too low for the basic antags (traitor, BB, changeling), ie a lowpop round with 4 changelings on 20 pop on 60 threat is very possible. These should not scale as high as they do, and the starter cost and steps should cost more.
-The antag cap for the game modes should be expanded past the current max at 54 players limit, as we are forced to max out the amount a bit earlier than I'd like. Going back to a properly scaling coefficient might be good alternative, but it needs to be properly tuned and cant use the same one as the base game modes as they are too high for a potential mix of antags.

What I would like to see for a more evolved dynamic:
-More dynamically assigned threat. Currently, its just rolled at the start and spent. I would like to see threat returned to the pool for midround/latejoin rolls when certain things happen, as well as the possibility of generating more as the round carries on. At the same time, random midround events spawning antags need to be turned off. Threat should also not only be an antag thing, but should be reflected in the random events as well. I.e. a 100 threat round should have more devastating midround events than a 10 threat round.

I think dynamic might benefit from a wider choice of half-antags (on the scale of abductors or revenant) to avoid having full traitors as the minimum threat. Adding some non-murder or limited-murder antag roles would help with keeping a round moving with less risk of outright ending.

it seems like the problem is blood brothers and not dynamic why not just remove blood bros.

Dynamic has the potential to work, it just needs tweaking which apparently nobody wants to do

CDranzer wrote:Dynamic has the potential to work, it just needs tweaking which apparently nobody wants to do

There's a link to its documentation somewhere, even with that it needs to be boiled down into something more digestible.

Im looking into tweaking dynamic in the config.

literally just entirely BB's fault for making dynamic sucky sucky, they provide next to no antagonism because >no traitor gear >basically defenseless >gonna be paired up with unrobust retard so you're gonna just be sitting there clicky buttons while your bloodbrother's sucking fat dick in the theatre, and i can only see one use for bloodbrothers which is just fucking killing everybody because it's just antag without the antag. it takes 15 threat for one bb team which lowers threat level heavily and bloodbrothers is so fucking COMMON on dynamic, especially at lowpop
just remove/lower bloodbrother's chances or threat level and then there arent 2 bb 0 antag rounds where nothing happens

Blood brothers is a garbage antag to begin with. Just remove it and nobody would miss it. A traitor can literally get a contract kit, do one contract and order reinforcements, which is much more interesting.

It's still only rolling blood brothers all day every day.
Turning off BB worked fora day and then everyone figured they can get antag if they turn it on and we are back where we were.
for example
blood brothers
again
and then we had
blood brothers
followed by blood brothers
and then there was some nice blood brothers
then a guy rolled BB
we had some nice BB
And they all murdered a lot of people.
Oh and then it was blood brothers again.
CONTESTED SYSTEM

Apply laser to mouth. I know none of you fucks give much of a shit but c'mon now. Can we admit that shit shit is cancer already and you disable that shit?

No, i don't care about your coding; this is for headmins, disable dynamic, enable secret.

Excuse me, I was blood brothers twice today and traitor twice. You are clearly overstating it.

But yeah oh look it's time for more blood brothers.

I wanna be a wizard!

have you asked headmin to tweak bb spawn rate for bagil as its in permanent dead pop, instead of making a new thread on bad opinions you negroid?

Remove BB or give them some TC

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:have you asked headmin to tweak bb spawn rate for bagil as its in permanent dead pop, instead of making a new thread on bad opinions you negroid?

tweaking rate is code.
Code takes time.
I don't discuss code, you can do that in you PRs that you outline with paint art.
setting it to secret is instant if someone gave a shit.

Threads will continue until change happens or then it's just going to be infinite threads.

Considering you have neither observed nor visited bagil in quite some time, i doubt you have any meaningful input to add anyway besides insults so, ahem.
get the fuck off my thread you fucking shitler grief magnet and go back to your containment server and stay there and don't offer your meaningless input on shit you have no information nor understanding on.

Blood brothers is a cancer antag, just remove it and introduce a new antag - a traitor that spawns in with a contract kit.

Reeeee wrote:

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:have you asked headmin to tweak bb spawn rate for bagil as its in permanent dead pop, instead of making a new thread on bad opinions you negroid?

tweaking rate is code.
Code takes time.
I don't discuss code, you can do that in you PRs that you outline with paint art.
setting it to secret is instant if someone gave a shit.

Threads will continue until change happens or then it's just going to be infinite threads.

Considering you have neither observed nor visited bagil in quite some time, i doubt you have any meaningful input to add anyway besides insults so, ahem.
get the fuck off my thread you fucking shitler grief magnet and go back to your containment server and stay there and don't offer your meaningless input on shit you have no information nor understanding on.

tweaking configs isnt code thats why i said headmin instead of wyci, you horse face nigger retard faggot that comes here to whine about a gamemode that hasnt ever been tested on a dead pop serv, i wonder why, maybe its because of people like you? , even e hall gets more pop , its a config it can be changed by headmins at will, just ask one, instead of going kamikaze on AAGGHH!! OCH!!! dynamic bad because 2 pop server dont work

Just hub Bagil, problem solved

what if we reworked bloodbrothers to spawn with two syndikits, one for each bro

syndikits aren’t really powerful or worth 20tc and I feel like two antags with gimmick syndikits from series B would work better than two antags with nothing whatsoever; but the issue I see with this is that it’s dependent on luck and what they get. Still a better solution that what we have rn

blood brothers are useless and should be either reworked into traitor with less power and less gear or be removed outright

RaveRadbury wrote:Just hub Bagil, problem solved

bagil has been hubbed, set to secret and et cetera.
it won't stick because some headmins keeps changing it back to dynamic.

Reeeee wrote:

RaveRadbury wrote:Just hub Bagil, problem solved

bagil has been hubbed, set to secret and et cetera.
it won't stick because some headmins keeps changing it back to dynamic.

Bagil is not hubbed right now and that's why it doesn't have any pop.

Changes have been made to dynamic.json to reduce blood brothers on lower population, same for nuclear operatives and cult. However there are some technical issues so the changes aren't being mirrored to the live servers. Waiting on MSO currently.