/tg/Station 13

I had a friend who proposed this to me. What if you made a grenade set to "Mah'weyh pleggh at e'ntrath!" so that when you got converted, everyone around you got owned?

I figured that this would be against the rules since it seems meta as fuck, but an admin told me that they weren't so sure. I'm curious to see if this is against the rules.

Of course if your nade kills non cultists, you're in the wrong. That's a given. Let's assume it ONLY kills cultists, though.

It seems like an intended feature in the sense that the incantation is static throughout the round and through several rounds. Players are allowed to know the mechanics of an antagonist and I think that would include said incantation.

If there is an issue with it being used as tell (although that's kind of the point of having unique strings for each spell?) then the fix should probably be on code side.

Yeah we can address it when it's actually a problem, no?

This is a clear cut case of "don't be the one to bring it up", fucking dammit jared.

Lowkey balanced by the possibility someone could fake cult and cause the chemist to eat shit prematurely, outlier as that might be.

wesoda25 wrote:This is a clear cut case of "don't be the one to bring it up", fucking dammit jared.

Cult sucks, it's fine.

this should be allowed just because it's so fucking funny to me

seems like nasty metagame to me in the sense that it's a lot like pre-emptively AI-sabotage-proofing atmos

PKPenguin321 wrote:seems like nasty metagame to me in the sense that it's a lot like pre-emptively AI-sabotage-proofing atmos

what about if they're confirmed though, i can understand this being bad if you're just going "lol time to make my anti-cult nade" every round but i dont see the problem with making one if there is confirmed cult
probably just my powergamer instincts though

well even with RP aside, there being literally no counter or tell makes it really really bad for gameplay which again is similar to the preemptive-anti-AI-sabotage rule

make cult spell use zalgo text

Emergent gameplay.

I thought voice sensors got gutted to be extremely dysfunctional in grenade making.

Also, I actually asked this way back when I first started playing the game. I'm pretty sure it was Dorsi who told me they'd consider it really bad sportsmanship and probably subject to admin ire, but that might be me misremembering which admin told me at the time. I believe it was also determined that the incantation mixes itself up a bit.

Are phrases spoken in a different language detected as their real equivalent or no? If it's no, maybe it is time to finally make the incantations be spoken in nar'sian.

If you're doing it before cult is confirmed, then it's sort of metagaming. I don't really see any problem with it after cult is confirmed, it seems quite funny actually

I've done this extensively a while back, but only after cult is known. It's hillarious if you enjoy collecting salt.
We allow players to know all the mechanics around how antags work, so they should be fine to do this without it being by-the-rules metagaming. If someone does this all the time, or even outside cult rounds, it might become a problem. That said this anti cult strategy isnt without flaws, just say the conversion phrase on the radio and blow that individual up whereever they currently are If you get lucky, you get some kills and that player gets in trouble. You know how some people keep a microphone on SBR in their backpack during cult? Yeah those would remote set it off too.

PKPenguin321 wrote:seems like nasty metagame to me in the sense that it's a lot like pre-emptively AI-sabotage-proofing atmos

Sabotaging atmos is okay if the AI is acting suspicious, preparing bombs for a suspected cult would be no different.

PKPenguin321 wrote:well even with RP aside, there being literally no counter or tell makes it really really bad for gameplay which again is similar to the preemptive-anti-AI-sabotage rule

>literally no counter
just look at the guys inventory?

I mean if you're spending a lot of time scoping out player inventories with spirit realm, you're probably not fighting much and observing peoples inventories is very slow and clunky. That said, the moment you spot a grenade, you may as well give a shot at detonating that preemptively over the radio.

And if you're not doing that, no, you still don't have any heads up that they have a voice trigger grenade. That's kind of the point.

Don't they take several seconds to detonate anyway?

terranaut wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:well even with RP aside, there being literally no counter or tell makes it really really bad for gameplay which again is similar to the preemptive-anti-AI-sabotage rule

>literally no counter
just look at the guys inventory?

with no tell, there's no prompting to do so

PKPenguin321 wrote:well even with RP aside, there being literally no counter or tell makes it really really bad for gameplay which again is similar to the preemptive-anti-AI-sabotage rule

I mean you could search the chemist before converting them

which you should probably fuckin have to instead of being able to convert someone in literally 5 seconds like you can now

Voice activation grenades or health grenades not having a tell isn’t entirely exclusive to cult though.

confused rock wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:well even with RP aside, there being literally no counter or tell makes it really really bad for gameplay which again is similar to the preemptive-anti-AI-sabotage rule

I mean you could search the chemist before converting them

which you should probably fuckin have to instead of being able to convert someone in literally 5 seconds like you can now

This sounds funny--make it so cultists are incentivized to look in peoples belongings because like...converting with holy water hurts them or some shit.

PKPenguin321 wrote:well even with RP aside, there being literally no counter or tell makes it really really bad for gameplay which again is similar to the preemptive-anti-AI-sabotage rule

say ";Mah'weyh pleggh at e'ntrath!"

*Four voice activated grenades go off due to the phrase on radio*

BrotherBeyond wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:well even with RP aside, there being literally no counter or tell makes it really really bad for gameplay which again is similar to the preemptive-anti-AI-sabotage rule

say ";Mah'weyh pleggh at e'ntrath!"

*Four voice activated grenades go off due to the phrase on radio*

I would have thought the ruling would have been treated similar to bombing the cult. If it doesn't win you the round straight away, it's grief.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 62#p329751

Armhulen wrote:if your extremely griefy thing doesn't DIRECTLY WIN THE ROUND RIGHT AFTER it's griff and bannable

the miner should be banned rn

Even if it's a smaller explosion, if the cult/random crew member randomly triggers it that player should probably still be held accountable for any deaths their explosive causes that aren't antags.

BrotherBeyond wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:well even with RP aside, there being literally no counter or tell makes it really really bad for gameplay which again is similar to the preemptive-anti-AI-sabotage rule

say ";Mah'weyh pleggh at e'ntrath!"

*Four voice activated grenades go off due to the phrase on radio*

this instantaneously outs you to the whole station as an antag because non-antags can't do this without getting banned for random murder

PKPenguin321 wrote:

BrotherBeyond wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:well even with RP aside, there being literally no counter or tell makes it really really bad for gameplay which again is similar to the preemptive-anti-AI-sabotage rule

say ";Mah'weyh pleggh at e'ntrath!"

*Four voice activated grenades go off due to the phrase on radio*

this instantaneously outs you to the whole station as an antag because non-antags can't do this without getting banned for random murder

By the point in a cult round where chemists are allowed to be making and handing out anti-cult grenades to random crew you probbably have redeyes at least, so you're already covering your face in the halls.

A shitty strategy and shitty metas developed to counter it are, surprisingly, shit. If people actually start doing this, obviously a code solution is in order.

If you blow up post-conversion and kill cultists you break the dont kill your antag teammates rule, dont ya

If you are doing this you know very well you are toeing the line so expecting not to get bwoinked means you probably need to take a different approach to the game.

hows this line toeing? its specifically allowed in the rules
it's powergame as hell and super boring, but not close to a rule break

Being “powergame as hell” is actually against rules though so yes you open yourself to potential admins being bootyblasted if you did something like this. The situation is certainly not bannable when looking through the meta game lens I agree. Meta game however isn’t our only rule.

The fix here is to just make the convert chant static throughout the round but selected from a pool when cult starts so you have to know which one it is before your bomb works instead of asking admins to handhold the feature. I’m still confused how people can be mad you give stuff unique strings so they are easily identifiable Ingame then turn around and act surprised it’s being used as an identifying feature for stuff like bombs.

If a grenade is made when there’s suspicion of cult its fine, if its done roundstart with no indication its bad.
Also as with anything in this game, don’t overdo it, like don’t do this every single round you suspect cult or it may become a problem.

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Yes.
Domitius: Yes.
Naloac: Yes.