/tg/Station 13

This is related to the recent debate regarding adminning while playing, which I think was a great argument with a great result.

However, chaplains are very important against 2 game modes (wizard and cult) so I think that it's impossible for an admin to be neutral in those modes, especially because, by default, there is only 1.

This needs both a code & policy change for chaplains to be an auto de-adminned role.

God no don't you start policies for each particular case now please. Also code? Why? This is all pointless and getting obnoxious, just trust each other and let players make complaints if their round gets ruined by a shitty admin.

It's not important if an admin can or can't do something, what's important is the historical impact this has had on a round or multiple ones, with factual information as proof. Can you provide examples of rounds in which an admin has played while adminning as a chaplain and it happened to be a round with a wizard and they happened to abuse the meta info and also happened to decrease the quality of the round? Or is this just another hypothetical?

I feel like this is one of those pointless but hot takes.

I was firmly on the "admins should play unless important role" side of the last thread, but I agree on the basis of "there is only one chaplain and any prayers granted by the gods while you are them is super iffy".

Might be another answer looking for a problem thread.

Honestly, I had a lowpop chaplain round. I don't normally chaplain. So I hit a tank with my bible to go bless the station, when I see a prayer along the lines of "how do i select spells" - a first time wizard.

This puts me in an impossible position. either, I ghost (which I obviously had to) or I dont.

this doesnt make for even rounds

The solution I'm looking for is a ruling / code that is "Admins should not be chaplains"

Praying is not integral to the chaplain’s playstyle, nor is praying an ability exclusive to chaplains.

Im only concerned about the chaplain having the only null rod

WineAllWine wrote:Honestly, I had a lowpop chaplain round. I don't normally chaplain. So I hit a tank with my bible to go bless the station, when I see a prayer along the lines of "how do i select spells" - a first time wizard.

This puts me in an impossible position. either, I ghost (which I obviously had to) or I dont.

this doesnt make for even rounds

Oof. At least you had the sense to do the right thing.

Sounds silly as a policy, even more so for a code change. Most chaplain rounds you’re just a roleplay role, and should something come up you can just deadmin. Would be downright annoying for gimmicks and events.

WineAllWine wrote:Honestly, I had a lowpop chaplain round. I don't normally chaplain. So I hit a tank with my bible to go bless the station, when I see a prayer along the lines of "how do i select spells" - a first time wizard.

This puts me in an impossible position. either, I ghost (which I obviously had to) or I dont.

this doesnt make for even rounds

You found the solution yourself without a policy, bravo. You can also just offer your mob to a ghost (second solution, woah I'm a genius, your're welcome)

Sure, but if you're setting up a gimmick then see : CULT SPEAK "lets meet up in science". That is bound to have an impact on a round

Agux909 wrote:

WineAllWine wrote:Honestly, I had a lowpop chaplain round. I don't normally chaplain. So I hit a tank with my bible to go bless the station, when I see a prayer along the lines of "how do i select spells" - a first time wizard.

This puts me in an impossible position. either, I ghost (which I obviously had to) or I dont.

this doesnt make for even rounds

You found the solution yourself without a policy, bravo. You can also just offer your mob to a ghost (second solution, woah I'm a genius, your're welcome)

I daren't offer myself up as a ghost, that would be using admin powers on myself as a player, which isnt allowed

WineAllWine wrote:

Agux909 wrote:

WineAllWine wrote:Honestly, I had a lowpop chaplain round. I don't normally chaplain. So I hit a tank with my bible to go bless the station, when I see a prayer along the lines of "how do i select spells" - a first time wizard.

This puts me in an impossible position. either, I ghost (which I obviously had to) or I dont.

this doesnt make for even rounds

You found the solution yourself without a policy, bravo. You can also just offer your mob to a ghost (second solution, woah I'm a genius, your're welcome)

I daren't offer myself up as a ghost, that would be using admin powers on myself as a player, which isnt allowed

I need actual confirmation for this. Is it not allowed if it can (more than) potentially benefit the round in such a rare case as the one you just described? How so? This seems a very counterproductive rule or precedent to be set in place if it's definitive.

Agux909 wrote:

WineAllWine wrote:

Agux909 wrote:

WineAllWine wrote:Honestly, I had a lowpop chaplain round. I don't normally chaplain. So I hit a tank with my bible to go bless the station, when I see a prayer along the lines of "how do i select spells" - a first time wizard.

This puts me in an impossible position. either, I ghost (which I obviously had to) or I dont.

this doesnt make for even rounds

You found the solution yourself without a policy, bravo. You can also just offer your mob to a ghost (second solution, woah I'm a genius, your're welcome)

I daren't offer myself up as a ghost, that would be using admin powers on myself as a player, which isnt allowed

I need actual confirmation for this. Is it not allowed if it can (more than) potentially benefit the round in such a rare case as the one you just described? How so? This seems a very counterproductive rule or precedent to be set in place if it's definitive.

I think I;ve managed here to trap myself in a circular argument. I maintain that a chaplain has as much to gain from the admin met-info as a seccie

I think that unless you got an actual history with collected cases of these rare occurrences happening, this thread is useless just as the previous one (not quoting anymore it's getting cramped).

This seems like it's covered under the current policy, especially with the idea that the goal isn't to set something in stone for every edge case. If you're a roboticist and you find out its malf or your chappy and find out its cult: better not affect the round, better leave just to be safe.

Likewise, I don't see offering yourself up to ghosts as a violation of "Don't do admin stuff to your character", you're passing yourself on to someone else, not giving yourself godmode or anything.

Also, dollars to donuts that whatever ghost picks you up is going to be aware of the antag situation: get this, they are expected not to metagame with the ghost information that they are aware of. So you could deadmin the moment you knew there was a wiz and effectively have the level of info that a ghost picking up your slot would.

i think admin playing as chaplain is more rare than the case this is trying to manage

Chaplain is a round changing role with powerful combat equipment in 2 out of our what, 7 active game types? I think thats fair enough for not playing as him to be common sense under "Dont play important roles"

Has something happened on a particular server to prompt this?

Pandarsenic wrote:Has something happened on a particular server to prompt this?

No, this and the issue that it sprung from have both been solutions in search of problems.

Just deadmin when you play. smh

What happens when it is cult do you get to stay adminned?

That said it’s just a rehash of the last thread with a different flavor because every action can be perceived or end up being vital to the round (as I said in the last thread). It doesn’t matter what job although the ones we currently btfo tend to do more important actions.

Can you playmin as a janitor with a slaughter demon?
Can you playmin as a lawyer or librarian with a devil?

The answer is one we’ve already exhausted and given a response to unfortunately. Then again we’re just drawing the line in the sand anyways, really should be asking why can’t we admin as antag/cap/etc since admins can just be trusted :smug:

Cobby wrote:Can you playmin as a lawyer or librarian with a devil?

Devil was removed whole hog.

ArcaneDefence wrote:

Cobby wrote:Can you playmin as a lawyer or librarian with a devil?

Devil was removed whole hog.

Same scenario though is what I was getting at.

If you don't like people admining while playing certain roles you should probably lead by example and not do it yourself. I thought this matter was already resolved in a different policy thread?

mindstormy wrote:If you don't like people admining while playing certain roles you should probably lead by example and not do it yourself. I thought this matter was already resolved in a different policy thread?

The way to avoid the need for all this is simple, the best way to avoid any headaches is to simply not even admin and play in the first place, if you do then you should have a good reason (no other admins and someone is breaking the rules in a very severe way or something), and if you are going to insist on playing and admining and if you notice that you are in a job that will put you into conflict with someone you have metainfo about then you should just go back to ghosting to avoid any trouble, if you fail to do this and then people make accusations about you then it would be your own fault for playing and adminning and therefore all you can do is accept any punishment that is handed down by the head admins. It is also particularly important to note that even if the server has no admins you are not duty bound to admin on it and you can still just play the round without being adminned which would avoid this problem altogether anyway

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:

mindstormy wrote:If you don't like people admining while playing certain roles you should probably lead by example and not do it yourself. I thought this matter was already resolved in a different policy thread?

What about Second Policy Thread?.png

Literally just admin shopping - "I'll raise the same question slightly differently to different people until I get an answer I like!"

If it’s not seen as admin abuse why would anyone report it? How does a player know that an admin is abusing the info?

It’s extremely hard to detect even metacomms on a player level as admins if people are smart about it. We had admins do normal metacomms (who have admitted it) for years but ironically players couldnt do low level metacomms without a permaban on one of them with no second chance. I just want to avoid the issue entirely and at least have the safety of knowing if an admin is abusing metainfo in the round they have to at least be working with someone else which means more room for bringing it out. I don’t buy the “just trust me” stuff and would prefer to be as open about things as possible (this is a videogame ofc), so if we can limit the amount of info you’re NOT supposed to have I don’t see why that wouldn’t be a no brainer outside of free chat room and a hypothetical instance where you just NEED to be on because no one else can be. Only thing better than gentleman’s agreement is an actual agreement enforced by mechanics (aka you are not shown that info to begin with).

If you don’t see the “I changed my actions so that I always lose or avoid baddies when I playmin” as a reportable incident of people using that metainfo then yes there’s not really any reportable instances which fit your criteria. We can agree to disagree that’s problematic.

Like I said tho we already had the conversation and lost with this current set of headmins so can we at least wait until the next set lol.