/tg/Station 13

There's been a shared idea among the MRP-sphere of the admin team that "that security should not gearing up with contraband (traitor gear like eswords, .357s, etc) that they confiscate without a good reason (EX: Dragon attack, zombie infestation, cult)".

I would like this to be discussed and codified somewhere. Currently, it's entirely up to the admin whether they want to warn security officers to stop using contraband and leave their stolen goods behind in the brig. The following MRP rules are often used to justify this:

MRP Rule 8

Don’t use OOC information or knowledge that your character would not reasonably be aware of just to give yourself an advantage.
Do not powergame. Powergaming is gearing up or preparing in other ways to face an issue that is not related to your job and is not currently a credible threat. Someone going missing on the station, and then you making a stunprod to wield whenever you go into maint is powergaming. However; knowing there have been murders occurring across the station, and grabbing a stunprod while you go to fix wires in maint is fine.

Carrying around an energy sword can be considered powergaming, as there's usually not a threat to warrant carrying a weapon like that.

MRP Rule 9

Play as a coherent, believable character.
Real life realism is not required, and you are encouraged to be a little silly within the context of the SS13 game world. (Clowning around, people spontaneously exploding and creating ridiculously elaborate machinery are all non-serious things but yet a vital part of the game world.) There's a good chance your character still wants to have a job at the end of the day, so you should probably act like it.

Using contraband is illegal, and being members of security, most would care about not breaking the law / wanting to keep their security job.

Ultimately, I'm opening this thread up for discussion on where to take it.

It should be fine as long as there's a threat that warrants carrying it around.

Security is a team of folks who, not only have good equipment compared to the average joe aboard the station, but, has an entire team of coworkers who will (usually) jump to their side at a single radio call. Traitors are lone wolves who rarely if ever work together due to their scattered objectives. In order to overcome the overwhelming odds, traitors are given crutches of "gamer" loot. If Security is running around with E-Swords, .357s, or Contractor Batons for little to no reason other than "There might still be traitors left" then they're not working with their team.

There's a lot of nuances to when and why security should be carrying gamer loot, but in short it should follow the same policy we have about carrying around laser guns when nothing is happening.

Powergaming argument aside using traitor gear without reason is generally poor form and undermines securities’ meta protections. It can create really messy escalation situations and even on LRP I’m not a huge fan of it, mostly pertaining to people making arrests using/with visible antag gear.

generally seccies using tot gear is poor form imo, especially stuff like nukie suit (in general i look down on anyone who uses the nukie suit outside of actual nukies or faking nukies), but if ANY ADMIN dares try punish seccies for using emags to emag their mask for funny line, i WILL throw pool noodles at the entire admin base

I said it elsewhere but there is a lacking definition on contraband. The wiki provides little direction on it (space law is an antiquated husk). I have something I've been brewing on it and I'll probably dump it here or in another thread later though if I actually finish it and like it but until then it doesn't really exist.

Contraband does kinda direct one towards syndicate items, emag things, drugs/guns and hacked cargo things on the wiki, and """possession of drugs, guns, explosives, and weapons""" but its more involved than that. Something can be considered contraband in the right context and not be in others. Not to mention things like the list of syndicate items is a large one.

That said none of the above is even rules related.

So we could say don't use contraband or whatever but it'd wacky and way too open to interpretation without it also containing a defining blurb on what that over the top point of contraband use actually is. Would all antag stuff apply? Just antag weapons? Antag devices, items, and implants? Etc.

Using contraband is illegal, and being members of security, most would care about not breaking the law / wanting to keep their security job.

I'm on the fence on this being so generalized: there are plenty of fun, interesting legitimate reasons to be corrupt, that doesn't end up equating to being a dick and ruining peoples rounds or power-gaming.

Corrections officers in life regularly take confiscated cigarettes from inmates and smoke them themselves for example. Sure its contraband in that aspect, and sure its corrupt but they aren't going to lose their job over it.

I never really subscribed to the idea of security being 'perfect employees' it just polices potential fun. It ends up being incredibly unrealistic, boring, and doesn't really lead to much improv if you end up expecting every sec officer will be a by the books clone and will never be corrupt.

Farquaar wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:03 am It should be fine as long as there's a threat that warrants carrying it around.

I should also add that seccies wielding traitor gear during an arrest could reasonably lose their metaprotections for that arrest. Using a traitor item can make you look like an antag disguised as sec, so don't be surprised if a perp resists your arrest like they would resist a kidnapping.

As a rule of thumb, the contraband locker should only be opened if the station or the lives of its crew depend on it. You shouldn't be pulling out an esword while arresting the clown for spreading space lube. You would be justified, however, to pull out an esword to defend yourself against a xenomorph, changeling, or war operative.

This is why the contraband locker should be a machine that doesn't give you access to the tater gear you put in unless you file a proper form documenting the threat and your intended use and it gives you the gear with a timed tag on it and when time runs out it starts beeping and alerting everyone annoyingly until you put it back in the machine.

Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:01 am This is why the contraband locker should be a machine that doesn't give you access to the tater gear you put in unless you file a proper form documenting the threat and your intended use and it gives you the gear with a timed tag on it and when time runs out it starts beeping and alerting everyone annoyingly until you put it back in the machine.

Interesting tradeoff. Reduced risk of tots stealing back their contraband gear, but also public humiliation if you carry it around to hunt valids. Still, the idea relies too much on the crew mutinying against the seccies to be of any value as a deterrent IMO.

Or in the heads of staff being anal retentive bureaucrats. The best kind of heads.

or on the HOS demanding you come hand it back in so the machine stops PDAing him with "Equipment violation!" hah.


Honestly I do like the sound of the policy that "If you use antag gear to carry out sec duties, you lose the 'lawful arrest' metaprotection sec get if someone beats you to death for pulling an esword/contractor baton on them"

i just feed it into the destructive analyzer

It seems like there can only really be a general notion here I don’t think it’s wise to blanket ban.

If you’re going back to brig with gamer gear and there is something that looks like there’s immediacy to look into, I’d say that’s rule 10 game sucks instead of berating the officer for using a tool he had on him at the time for an advantage.

I’m not bothering with the powergame aspect since I don’t think you’re going out of your way to get the gear.

First the gear would need to be divided into 2 categories - dangerous (eswords, .357s, bombs etc) and non-dangerous (encryption keys, noslips, agent IDs, voice changers etc). Even then a code solution such as antag-gear-redemption machine (which would add 2500 credits to security budget for every 1TC the inserted gear is worth and then destroy the inserted gear) to incentivize would be better than just saying "it puts the antag gear in the contraband locker or it gets the hose again".

Come to think of it a code solution would be better than a policy solutions - just add implant checks to traitor gear so non-traitors couldn't use them and then add an antag-gear-redemption machine which converts traitor gear into credits and adds them to the redeemer's account.

Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:01 am This is why the contraband locker should be a machine that doesn't give you access to the tater gear you put in unless you file a proper form documenting the threat and your intended use and it gives you the gear with a timed tag on it and when time runs out it starts beeping and alerting everyone annoyingly until you put it back in the machine.

i like this idea perhaps a machine that can store contraband items, but can only be opened when red alert is activated?

There are wardens and seccies in real life that are so corrupt it makes your stomach churn, prisoners could be having shivs and weapons but if ya give em cigs or 'contraband' they will let it go(Please don't forbid contraband(Maybe only dangerous shit))

The contraband locker is intended for counter-play purposes.
Sec should make best efforts to store contraband quickly, and only use it when appropriate situations arise.
Wielding traitor gear during arrests threatens a sec officer's meta protections.

Headmin Votes:
RaveRadbury: Yes
NamelessFairy: Yes
Dragomagol: Yes