/tg/Station 13

when i made the "This rule applies to ALL OOC bigotry, even when expressed in IC. There is no racism in 2561, just species-ism: there is no homophobia, just xenophiliaphobia, etc." bit of the bigotry rule, for species-ism i was basically thinking of ligger and the goal was to clarify it wouldn't be banned.

It should be valid for (initially non-lethal) escalation however. It's perfectly ic to want to beat the ass of some speciesist asshole.

Spacelaw could also be reworked to take it into account, not sure about the best way to do so, but it's an option.

I was going to leave this open to see if the convo moves to space law.

It did not.

If a player wrongs you(theft, attacks, insulting you via speciesist slurs, etc), you may retaliate. If you choose to retaliate with violence, you in turn have opened yourself up to violence. If you choose this route, do not expect admins to help you out if you die, even if you were not the original instigator. If you are concerned about being "kill baited" then consider calling security, using non lethal means to subdue your opponent, fleeing, or otherwise working things out (talking them down, getting your stolen items replaced, etc)

Cobby wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:22 am is there something suggesting contrary to this that you cant escalate against someone targeting you with slurs? What part needs clarification?

I dont think we need to have every permutation in the rules because then it suggests if its not in the magic list its not doable.

iamgoofball wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:56 am

Cobby wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:22 am is there something suggesting contrary to this that you cant escalate against someone targeting you with slurs? What part needs clarification?

I dont think we need to have every permutation in the rules because then it suggests if its not in the magic list its not doable.

all of the examples in the escalation list right now are physical in-game actions(theft of an object, actively physically harming your spaceman), and it's safe to assume that you can't retaliate for verbal abuse since all the given examples for retaliation are physical abuse things instead of verbal abuse things

which is why we should explicitly point out that verbal abuse counts as an escalation reason as per MSO's ruling

Boot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:21 pm Ligger isn't in violation of rule 11, it is explicitly allowed under precedent 2.

Sylphet wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:03 pm

Boot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:21 pm Ligger isn't in violation of rule 11, it is explicitly allowed under precedent 2.

That isn't what this thread is about.

There are certain well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which have never been thought to raise any Constitutional problem. These include ... the insulting or "fighting" words – those which by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace. It has been well observed that such utterances are no essential part of any exposition of ideas, and are of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality.

Drag wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:59 pm I don't see why we can't just add the word to the filter. The constant arguments generally agree that "Ligger" is just the N word with a single letter swapped around. It isn't a good "speciest" insult and it dosent feel creative. It just feels like bigatory that's being used to get around the word filter.

MSO wrote: The use of the L word on our servers predates the rise in people saying the n word and the rise in bigots on the server.

It was here before the bigots, it will be here after the bigots, and I refuse to let them take our fun.

As per MSO's ruling. A player expressing speciesism is valid for (initially non-lethal) escalation. It is perfectly IC to want to beat up some speciesist asshole. However, if you use speciesism to initiate conflict you can still be punished at an administrative level for winning those fights under the guise of self-defence. Admins should enforce this with the goal of preventing players from being speciesist so that they can "valid" those who respond to it with violence.