/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:44 pm**

Pretty self explanatory. Zamn has been in this community for some time now, and it's (in my humble opinion) an OOC in IC term, just like amogus. The word adds no flavour to the game whatsoever, and I don't think it should have a place in IC chat. It's comparable to amogus, which is already hard filtered.

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:47 pm**

Zamn, aren't you a salty catmin. Honestly, the idea of filtering stuff like that is imperfect in itself, since if someone is really trying to meme in character he will get past the filter, so admin action will be needed anyway. How easy is editing filter on the fly during the round? If something gets abused during one round just filter it for that round, and people will forget about it after an hour.

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:00 pm**

please for the love of god ban people who ooc in IC instead of relying on the filter, which should only be used for the most pernicious cases.

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:05 pm**

oranges wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:00 pm please for the love of god ban people who ooc in IC instead of relying on the filter, which should only be used for the most pernicious cases.

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:51 pm**

How easy is editing filter on the fly during the round?

It's so easy that Riggle has been doing it every round I see him on. This is not an acceptable solution as we should strive towards consistent administration where possible.

I agree with this on the basis of shooting down flavor of the month memes, adding things to the filter is extremely cheap.

Posted: **Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:05 am**

We should make the filter more expensive so you guys just ban people

Posted: **Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:03 am**

no just ban someone for ooc in ic/netspeak/flavour of the month coward coward coward

Posted: **Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:15 am**

Although I do not like hearing zoomerspeak in my /tg/ and the tides of children from YouTube were a mistake, banning people for saying memes IC is for hall monitors and you should work on whatever personal issues cause you to take offense at hearing them instead.

Posted: **Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:08 pm**

Filtering is the easy way out and serial IC/OOC and / or flavour of the month memes should be met with bans.

Posted: **Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:29 pm**

cacogen wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:15 am Although I do not like hearing zoomerspeak in my /tg/ and the tides of children from YouTube were a mistake, banning people for saying memes IC is for hall monitors and you should work on whatever personal issues cause you to take offense at hearing them instead.

This is always such a disingenuous take. Perhaps you should work on whatever personal issues cause you to take offence at people enforcing the server rules.

The idea behind filtering OOC in IC/memes of the month/etc is simple. If a word or phrase is guaranteed 100% always to be OOC in IC with no valid IC uses, adding it to the hard filter means people cannot say it (accidentally or otherwise) and will thus never be bwoinked for saying it.

However, the playerbase can find new words and phrases faster than they can be hard filtered. Perhaps there is some merit in bwoinking people who drag the quality of shifts down with their OOC references rather than just reactively banning said references.

What good is a phone call meme if you are unable to speak connect to the game servers?

Posted: **Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:38 pm**

Why in the hell would zamn be added to a filter? People say zamn in discord text, I'm sure they'd even say it in a call, what exactly is OOC about it? It's just a little harmless expression a server created.

Posted: **Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:49 pm**

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:38 pm Why in the hell would zamn be added to a filter? People say zamn in discord text, I'm sure they'd even say it in a call, what exactly is OOC about it? It's just a little harmless expression a server created.

https://bfy.tw/SRR6

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:47 am**

Timberpoes wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:29 pm
cacogen wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:15 am Although I do not like hearing zoomerspeak in my /tg/ and the tides of children from YouTube were a mistake, banning people for saying memes IC is for hall monitors and you should work on whatever personal issues cause you to take offense at hearing them instead.
This is always such a disingenuous take. Perhaps you should work on whatever personal issues cause you to take offence at people enforcing the server rules.

The idea behind filtering OOC in IC/memes of the month/etc is simple. If a word or phrase is guaranteed 100% always to be OOC in IC with no valid IC uses, adding it to the hard filter means people cannot say it (accidentally or otherwise) and will thus never be bwoinked for saying it.

However, the playerbase can find new words and phrases faster than they can be hard filtered. Perhaps there is some merit in bwoinking people who drag the quality of shifts down with their OOC references rather than just reactively banning said references.

What good is a phone call meme if you are unable to speak connect to the game servers?

How is it disingenuous? I do believe that zoomer memes threaten a certain type of nerd because they're either aged out or incredibly gay. And I do feel that's where some of this animus is coming from.

Why are you banning people for using memes in the first place? /tg/station never used to have a bunch of anti-fun librarians trying to punish players for using memes they don't like under the guise of muh immersions. It was the autist Saegrimr iirc who started obsessively banning people for netspeak IC (a rule that was never usually enforced up until that point) and it's only gotten more excessive and needless since. But adminPMing and especially banning people over things like this only appeals to Randall Weems to begin with.

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:38 am**

No need to be offended.

I do believe that OOC in IC rule enforcement threatens a certain type of NRP shitter because they're either burned out or incredibly stupid. And I do feel that's where some of this animus is coming from.

Why do you want to use memes IC in the first place? /tg/station never used to have a bunch of anti-RP shitters trying to punish players for wanting decent roleplay they're too burned out to enjoy under the guise of the servers devolving away from mechanical mastery. There have been a long line of shitters obsessively repeating the same tired memes IC (memes that never really caught on up until people started spamming them) and it's only gotten more excessive and needless since. But complaining in policy discussions and especially crying over things like this only appeals to Erwin Lawson types.

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:01 am**

seems like a lot more effort long term to constantly update the filter to combat memes vs just smacking people in the face any time it pops up so they learn their lesson

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:39 am**

oranges wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:00 pm please for the love of god ban people who ooc in IC instead of relying on the filter, which should only be used for the most pernicious cases.

the filter was spawned out of the laziness of admins. shouldve never existed, people who ooc in ic should be banned and there shouldnt be a filter to catch them. the filter only serves to annoy me when i misspell something and it looks like netspeak

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:17 am**

Just 15-minute ban people who OoC/IC or IC/OoC until they learn not to do it

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:41 am**

Adding to the filter is effectively free and if everyone here is arguing that this is an OOC-IC word that has no real IC usage, then it makes no sense not to just put it on the filter rather than let people walk themselves into 15 minute bans, only depending on whether the admin online cares or not

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:57 am**

I miss when people would just get slapped with a 15 minute OOC in IC server ban and no one would think anything of it.
It's a good shake of the stick that I will continue to advocate for.

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:27 am**

What the fuck is 'zamn'?

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:36 am**

Timberpoes wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:38 am /tg/station never used to have a bunch of anti-RP shitters

Roleplay is pretty gay, to tell you the truth. It's only set apart from self-important and tyrannical drama nerds (see: any HRP server) acting poorly when it amounts to people trying to play their roles well. That in itself is immersive. If somebody saying zamn threatens your immersions then you probably weren't that engaged with the round to begin with. I feel immersed fixing air alarms. I think jerking off your furry static with your metafriends in medbay while waiting for a body to come through is a lot of MRP folx' idea of roleplay but when you reduce the game to a virtual chatroom like Furcadia or Second Life then of course you're going to be upset when somebody uses a flavour of the month meme in it. 'My furry roleplay simulator should not have such things!' But of course, it's not a furry roleplay simulator. It's about people trying to survive on a space station. And some of those people like saying zamn.

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:59 am**

I really, really don't think it's a big deal if people say zamn every now and then.

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:07 am**

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:27 am What the fuck is 'zamn'?

https://bfy.tw/SRR6

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:29 am**

"yes its 500 years in the future culture and language has evolved HOWEVER only my memes are valid yours are stinky so i can make 500 "jokes" about catboi maids you are not allowed to say "dang" in a funny way."

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:09 pm**

Is anyone here capable of providing a single argument for how the word "zamn" is an OOC-IC term? Stating blankly "it's an OOC term" isn't an argument, by the way. Here's an argument for why amogus is an OOC-IC term: amogus references a videogame where certain players are traitors; saying "amogus" on TG makes light of the fact you are playing a videogame, similarly, with traitors among you.

"Zamn," is literally just "damn" with a Z. It doesn't break immersion, "amongus" does.

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:37 pm**

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:09 pm snippies

The argument isn't that it's ick ock, so much as it's a flavour of the month term that becomes so overused that while it isn't inherently ick ock, the fact that everyone IRL is saying it and everyone in SS13 is saying even though they're separated by hundreds of years, it makes it feel like it's basically a discord chat with Atmos rather than a roleplaying game. Sus and amogus weren't filtered for being ick ock, it's a shitty justification to cover for it's overused and not funny anymore please stop because we don't really have the spine to just say rule 1 knock it off in cases like this. In the end whether or not it's ick ock isn't the point of this thread, it's whether or not we're collectively sick of this shit enough to start taking action against people who say it.

tl;dr it isn't but it's annoying and stop it

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:50 pm**

cacogen wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:36 am Roleplay is pretty gay, to tell you the truth.

Excuse me, but I identify as part of the LRPBTQ+ community.

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:11 pm**

Sylphet wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:37 pm -snip

It is a bit of a strange argument to say that, because a word is trendy OOCly, it therefore becomes an OOC term if overused ICly. I don’t think the fact we roleplay as spacemen needs to mean we limit our vocabulary to only what spacemen set hundreds of years from now would say. You’d also need to bend over backwards to justify its censoring via rule 1. I suppose the best argument is “it’s annoying and we don’t like it,” but that’s still not a great argument IMO. Banning words simply because they’re annoying is a slippery slope. "Amogus," though, carried with it a legitimate OOC reference which I mentioned.

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:22 pm**

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:11 pm
Sylphet wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:37 pm -snip
It is a bit of a strange argument to say that, because a word is trendy OOCly, it therefore becomes an OOC term if overused ICly. I don’t think the fact we roleplay as spacemen needs to mean we limit our vocabulary to only what spacemen set hundreds of years from now would say. You’d also need to bend over backwards to justify its censoring via rule 1. I suppose the best argument is “it’s annoying and we don’t like it,” but that’s still not a great argument IMO. Banning words simply because they’re annoying is a slippery slope. "Amogus," though, carried with it a legitimate OOC reference which I mentioned.

Zamn, as far as I know, isn't a word, though. It derives directly from the meme. While, yes, this is how language evolves naturally over time, if there's a period where it's very flavour of the month, then it warrants discussion, at least.

Also 'sus' was a real word but still got the "If you don't use it properly, you're in trouble" treatment.

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:41 pm**

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:22 pm
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:11 pm
Sylphet wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:37 pm -snip
It is a bit of a strange argument to say that, because a word is trendy OOCly, it therefore becomes an OOC term if overused ICly. I don’t think the fact we roleplay as spacemen needs to mean we limit our vocabulary to only what spacemen set hundreds of years from now would say. You’d also need to bend over backwards to justify its censoring via rule 1. I suppose the best argument is “it’s annoying and we don’t like it,” but that’s still not a great argument IMO. Banning words simply because they’re annoying is a slippery slope. "Amogus," though, carried with it a legitimate OOC reference which I mentioned.
Zamn, as far as I know, isn't a word, though. It derives directly from the meme. While, yes, this is how language evolves naturally over time, if there's a period where it's very flavour of the month, then it warrants discussion, at least.

Also 'sus' was a real word but still got the "If you don't use it properly, you're in trouble" treatment.

It was wrong then and its wrong now. Fucking 65 percent of our code is a reference to some fucking meme or another. DOOMP IT MY VALIDS DEM FUKKEN DORFS LMAO 2CAT IF YOU CAN'T MAKE A SUGAR RUSH YOU CAN'T TEND BAR

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:28 pm**

ArcaneDefence wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:57 am I miss when people would just get slapped with a 15 minute OOC in IC server ban and no one would think anything of it.
It's a good shake of the stick that I will continue to advocate for.

I miss when OOC in IC / IC in OOC bans doubled in length for each offense.

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:46 pm**

It’s a stupid meme, and I’m too dumb to know where it’s from.

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:57 pm**

Mothblocks wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:41 am Adding to the filter is effectively free and if everyone here is arguing that this is an OOC-IC word that has no real IC usage, then it makes no sense not to just put it on the filter rather than let people walk themselves into 15 minute bans, only depending on whether the admin online cares or not

the whole point of banning these shit stains is so they sharpen up their behaviour, if the only negative effect is a fucking message preventing you from saying it, they are not going to learn you dumbass, you will just have to keep adidng more and more stupid shit to the filter because you refuse to do your fucking job.

Posted: **Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:08 am**

Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:41 pm
CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:22 pm
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:11 pm
Sylphet wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:37 pm -snip
It is a bit of a strange argument to say that, because a word is trendy OOCly, it therefore becomes an OOC term if overused ICly. I don’t think the fact we roleplay as spacemen needs to mean we limit our vocabulary to only what spacemen set hundreds of years from now would say. You’d also need to bend over backwards to justify its censoring via rule 1. I suppose the best argument is “it’s annoying and we don’t like it,” but that’s still not a great argument IMO. Banning words simply because they’re annoying is a slippery slope. "Amogus," though, carried with it a legitimate OOC reference which I mentioned.
Zamn, as far as I know, isn't a word, though. It derives directly from the meme. While, yes, this is how language evolves naturally over time, if there's a period where it's very flavour of the month, then it warrants discussion, at least.

Also 'sus' was a real word but still got the "If you don't use it properly, you're in trouble" treatment.
It was wrong then and its wrong now. Fucking 65 percent of our code is a reference to some fucking meme or another. DOOMP IT MY VALIDS DEM FUKKEN DORFS LMAO 2CAT IF YOU CAN'T MAKE A SUGAR RUSH YOU CAN'T TEND BAR

Yeah, but there's a difference between references, and overused flavour of the month. Sugar Rush is a subtle reference to a fairly niche borderline-VN that I vaguely suspect half the playerbase doesn't actually know the reference.

An overused flavour of the month is just irritating and gets tiring/boring, very very quickly.

Posted: **Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:21 am**

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:08 am
Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:41 pm
CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:22 pm
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:11 pm
Sylphet wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:37 pm -snip
It is a bit of a strange argument to say that, because a word is trendy OOCly, it therefore becomes an OOC term if overused ICly. I don’t think the fact we roleplay as spacemen needs to mean we limit our vocabulary to only what spacemen set hundreds of years from now would say. You’d also need to bend over backwards to justify its censoring via rule 1. I suppose the best argument is “it’s annoying and we don’t like it,” but that’s still not a great argument IMO. Banning words simply because they’re annoying is a slippery slope. "Amogus," though, carried with it a legitimate OOC reference which I mentioned.
Zamn, as far as I know, isn't a word, though. It derives directly from the meme. While, yes, this is how language evolves naturally over time, if there's a period where it's very flavour of the month, then it warrants discussion, at least.

Also 'sus' was a real word but still got the "If you don't use it properly, you're in trouble" treatment.
It was wrong then and its wrong now. Fucking 65 percent of our code is a reference to some fucking meme or another. DOOMP IT MY VALIDS DEM FUKKEN DORFS LMAO 2CAT IF YOU CAN'T MAKE A SUGAR RUSH YOU CAN'T TEND BAR
Yeah, but there's a difference between references, and overused flavour of the month. Sugar Rush is a subtle reference to a fairly niche borderline-VN that I vaguely suspect half the playerbase doesn't actually know the reference.

An overused flavour of the month is just irritating and gets tiring/boring, very very quickly.

you know what the cool thing about flavors of the month is? you can wait 31 days and it'll be gone

what would you guys do if one of your coworkers kept spouting old memes without context? if someone does it in game just call them a fucking nerd and push them into a locker, its not that hard

Posted: **Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:28 am**

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:46 pm It’s a stupid meme, and I’m too dumb to know where it’s from.

just subscribe to r/shitposting and you'll get all the zoomer hits and feel like you're back in middle school and with the casual implicit bigotry getting upvoted there wonder if these people have souls when all they seemed to be concerned about is appearing normal

Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:41 pm DOOMP IT

This is particularly egregious and orange should've stepped in and said the game is not a template for your favourite memes. But I think I only believe that because it's that Bogdanoff /biz/ shit and the whole 'Rothschilds bow to the Bogdanoffs' pasta that originally brought them onto people's radars began on /pol/ as a shitpost/ironic conspiracy theory some people there bought into. Other memes in the code do not foster such contempt, like those brain damage lines you referenced that were stupid things people said on Goon and have been in the game since /tg/station forked. This is why I think policing memes is bad, because inevitably there are some you like and others you can't stand and those are the ones you react to. The other choice is to simply ban all memes, which is the equivalent of a high school librarian going over to a table full of kids having fun and telling them they need to stop or get kicked out. You shouldn't allow yourself to become that person.

Posted: **Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:08 am**

To add on to what was said earlier in this thread, banning memes and making the admins into the fun police because of “Muh immersion” in a silly space game is again, rather silly. Before the not so controversial “AMOGUS” ban, you could just laugh at the brainlet screaming the words of power. Arrest them for insanity. Handle it IC.

Posted: **Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:15 am**

idk man. "zamn" has a meaning outside of the meme (you can pretty obviously tell that it's just a different way to say "daaaaamn"), and I personally use it unironically occasionally (I'm not a zoomer I swear).

Sylphet wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:37 pm the fact that everyone IRL is saying it and everyone in SS13 is saying even though they're separated by hundreds of years, it makes it feel like it's basically a discord chat with Atmos rather than a roleplaying game

okay but we're also saying words like "dollar" and "private jet" that will inevitably look like ye olde english 400 years from now. I don't really see why "zamn" should be any different.

and why *shouldn't* the game have a relaxing discord chat vibe? you can still rp without awkwardly rephrasing everything you say to make it sound like you're from the 2010s instead of the 2020s.

Posted: **Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:53 am**

IF your immersion is so fragile where if someone says something that can be considered to somewhat of a meme within a 6 mile radius causes you to lose your shit and think banning this person is ok then I think you have lost the plot. Meme culture has always been apart of society ever since the days of cable tv and am sure people have made references to those memes from (insert media here) in public before and still do so. I do not think someone making a reference to (insert media here) or making their own joke should be bannable and is not aganist roleplaying seeing people do this irl and is only natural humans want to fit in with other humans by making jokes and having a good time with others, I only take issue with this is if its if all the person says or does this for 1 hour in till its home time and the magical space bus takes you back to CC. I think banning this regardless of its on a filter or an admin banning you for is just that person enforcing their sense of humour onto the player base.

Posted: **Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:34 am**

This is not OOC in IC, nor is it a problem. Speaking in our modern internet colloquialisms and shit is not IC in OOC. It's just 'damn' with a 'z'. While it may have came from a meme, using fake swear words is also part and parcel for scifi settings sometimes (frack is the easiest to recall).

How big was the stick up whoever's ass who felt the need to do this lol. petty dislike for a word isn't a good reason to censor it. it's not even fucking netspeak lol. imagine the kind of delusional and huge ego you need to police language to this degree. netspeak and smileys are one thing but lol.

Posted: **Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:40 am**

this is dumb its just a funny way to say damn

Posted: **Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:30 pm**

I have been playing since 2014 and never have i seen the word zamn used.

Posted: **Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:29 pm**

Trying to keep any modern culture and vernacular out of SS13 is a losing battle by definition. "Zamn" is a thing outside of just the meme + it doesn't really have the level of specificity of temporality that Amogus has.

Amogus is a flavor of the month non sequitur that gets dropped either out of nowhere, because meme poisoning means it's funny to just say things that are references to something funny without any actual context for doing so... or because of the genre similarities, but it's still alluding to the meme because otherwise we'd be seeing references, at minimum, to The Thing around changelings.

The coming and going of slang - dab, lit, fam, bussy, chelp, shit, hella, damn/zamn, yeet/yeeted/yote, whatever - just kind of happens. Maybe it'll stick, maybe it won't. Rapidity of onset doesn't really define whether something has staying power or is flavor of the month.

Just ban people who do a non sequitur meme recitation. I believe in you. You can do it.

Posted: **Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:54 pm**

We have no interest in adding Zamn to the word filter, if its usage becomes excessively OOC then admins are free to intervene.

Headmin Votes:
NamelessFairy: Agree
Dragomagol: Agree
RaveRadbury: Agree

/tg/Station 13

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