/tg/Station 13

What the title says. It could be interesting, who knows?

I was not held at gunpoint by a certain headmin to make this thread, I promise.

Human authority is INTERESTING I get good rounds from clashing with the CMO that hops on afterwards.

I have more hours in moth CMO than most people do human CMO and it genuinely has created a huge amount of interesting stories

Maybe as a station trait this could be fun

People like the extra gameplay effects of being nonhuman, myself included

Station trait wouldn't work, I've gone into this in the past.

You don't want to promote random people to head of staff, so you have to let them opt in for it.

But letting them opt in for it means them having head of staff high, and if they're a nonhuman player, they already will not be doing that.

non-humans look weird with head of staff cloaks so i am against this

Not a fan. To me part of playing a non-human is accepting that it's got a fundamental effect on how you play, and part of that is being unable to play as a head of staff. It's also good flavour for the universe to show how there are deep divides between humanity and the other species, which I think is nice.

Strife is the flavor of life.

I agree with eob

First they came for our cocoa interaction, and now this ? Where will they stop with erasing everything that makes nonhumans different ?

no, and give us back cocoa cats it was funny

I definitely agree that human authority is interesting and makes the story more interesting, yet I can't say that disabling it wouldn't be interesting on its own. A code change that makes it random could be a good one, but as Mothblocks said, it may be hard to implement such a system. I would mostly be in favour to disable it and see what happens, then go on from there.

san7890 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:46 pm Strife is the flavor of life.

This for sure
Also what EOB and others said

Removing this somewhat important distinction would homogenize and dilute things even further than currently. No need to make things too bland, having difficulty in the game is exactly why the game is fun.

I fear the problems that would arise from a nonhuman head of staff and an asimov AI. Before someone chimes in with "bro its emergent gameplay": I don't care, making an already stressed system have to deal with more wacky bullshit is a recipe for drastic failure.

As an aside, what benefits would this removal have? A lot of the time I see it brought up with "it could be interesting". Is there anything else aside from its novelty that removing human authority could bring?

I've always been under the impression that it's caused so little strife for heads of staff roles it's basically irrelevant in that regard, it has more sway in crew to ai and non-head of staff - non-head of staff interaction.

mrmelbert wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:42 pm non-humans look weird with head of staff cloaks so i am against this

Incorrect.

Omega_DarkPotato wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:45 pm I fear the problems that would arise from a nonhuman head of staff and an asimov AI. Before someone chimes in with "bro its emergent gameplay": I don't care, making an already stressed system have to deal with more wacky bullshit is a recipe for drastic failure.

As an aside, what benefits would this removal have? A lot of the time I see it brought up with "it could be interesting". Is there anything else aside from its novelty that removing human authority could bring?

Yeah but someone could already go "hey AI, kill (Non-Human Player Name)", and the AI can already go "Order received. Killing (Non-Human Player Name)" to get someone to tell it not to.

I don't think it'd be an issue, because if it's a non-antag, then they're hit for griefing and trying to kill people as a non-antag. If it's an antag, then they're very quickly discovered either by public comms or checking the PDA records on the server.

As for whether it should happen or not- eh I have no strong feelings one way or the other.

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:54 am

Omega_DarkPotato wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:45 pm I fear the problems that would arise from a nonhuman head of staff and an asimov AI. Before someone chimes in with "bro its emergent gameplay": I don't care, making an already stressed system have to deal with more wacky bullshit is a recipe for drastic failure.

As an aside, what benefits would this removal have? A lot of the time I see it brought up with "it could be interesting". Is there anything else aside from its novelty that removing human authority could bring?

Yeah but someone could already go "hey AI, kill (Non-Human Player Name)", and the AI can already go "Order received. Killing (Non-Human Player Name)" to get someone to tell it not to.

I don't think it'd be an issue, because if it's a non-antag, then they're hit for griefing and trying to kill people as a non-antag. If it's an antag, then they're very quickly discovered either by public comms or checking the PDA records on the server.

As for whether it should happen or not- eh I have no strong feelings one way or the other.

That's assuming the AI WANTS to try and get the order cancelled. They can just execute the order if they're okay with doing it.

I don't want to play on a server with nonhuman authority, if I did I would go to one of the many alternatives which offer that sort of experience.

SkeletalElite wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 1:07 am

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:54 am

Omega_DarkPotato wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:45 pm I fear the problems that would arise from a nonhuman head of staff and an asimov AI. Before someone chimes in with "bro its emergent gameplay": I don't care, making an already stressed system have to deal with more wacky bullshit is a recipe for drastic failure.

As an aside, what benefits would this removal have? A lot of the time I see it brought up with "it could be interesting". Is there anything else aside from its novelty that removing human authority could bring?

Yeah but someone could already go "hey AI, kill (Non-Human Player Name)", and the AI can already go "Order received. Killing (Non-Human Player Name)" to get someone to tell it not to.

I don't think it'd be an issue, because if it's a non-antag, then they're hit for griefing and trying to kill people as a non-antag. If it's an antag, then they're very quickly discovered either by public comms or checking the PDA records on the server.

As for whether it should happen or not- eh I have no strong feelings one way or the other.

That's assuming the AI WANTS to try and get the order cancelled. They can just execute the order if they're okay with doing it.

And if they did, they already could.

No human authority will not make me play head roles.

No way pal being inferior is why I like being nonhuman

I'm 10,000% for this human authority is dumb

I'd say go further and remove non-humans from sec roles.

Hurts established themes, makes the game softer. Makes species less interesting. Crewsimov as default comes next.

We will not be removing human authority.

Removing Human Authority makes non-humans less interesting and more like humans. This conflicts with the intended design of non-humans on our server. Additionally, as has been demonstrated here, there is overwhelming preference for the way things are currently. Other communities have human authority disabled and we encourage players to try those servers to see if the reality of it is something that they would enjoy.

Headmin Votes:
RaveRadbury: Agree
Dragomagol: Agree
NamelessFairy: Agree - Pushing this thread to creation was part my doing. I think discussions on topics like this are important for our community to have every now and again to see where the community opinion is. While I personally would rather see the removal of human authority and I don't fully agree with the above statement. The community , at least as shown by this thread, seem to disagree with this, thus I won't attempt to push my changes through.