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Thief and being validhunting Regulations
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 12:06 pm
by Longestarmlonglaw
Thief is an antagonist, with more restrictions in who they can kill, this seems fine and dandy until You have people forming entire lynchmobs to hunt the thief
I believe in most cases treating thieves like traitors, is frankly overkill, and generally upsetting to the thief, they are very restricted in who they can kill, not protected by rule 4.
But everybody else is allowed to hunt the thief like a traitor, Even for something harmless where you catch them stealing organs from monkies, or see them building modsuits and taking them into maint to hoard.
"PERSON IS ORGAN THIEF, KILLLL!!!"
We require a similar rule, where validhunting of thieves is more restricted.
Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 12:53 pm
by Timberpoes
The ruling from
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=30800 technically covers this
Like abductors, obsessed, and brainwashed victims, thieves are not full antagonists and therefore rule 4 does not apply to them. Security should treat thieves as they would any other crew member who is maliciously stealing items. Likewise, thieves should not be using murder as a first resort to get items, and should escalate regularly.
Is this working? Are admins actually enforcing this ruling? Are you ahelping when you die (or see thieves executed) to make sure they were actually valid for execution?
I suspect that this part of the rules will be woefully under-enforced because I assume the default state for prolific thieves is to treat them as antags and execute. I would also suspect that admins on LRP aren't used to telling people they can't kill antags.
Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:06 pm
by Longestarmlonglaw
I can recount 2 on no admin hours, where I was permaed/ executed as a thief, I did NOT kill anybody, or steal any high risk items, But merely printing cyber organs, abducting people into dorms, Permaed for this next round, Executed in the next *Yes i rolled thief 2 times in a row)
So yes, i belive thief protections are being under-enforced, feel free to close this thread
Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:29 am
by Timberpoes
There's no need to close the thread.
Rule enforcement and communicating rules to players is a policy issue. A rule that isn't followed and isn't enforced basically doesn't exist.
I think you have a genuine point that is worth double checking to make sure admins and players alike are aware that thieves do not fall under rule 4 - either as antags, or as valids. They follow standard escalation against them by security as ordinary crew.
Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 2:57 am
by carshalash
You roundstart stunned the chief engineer in the bridge to steal his organs.
► Show Spoiler
[2022-03-04 11:16:00.200] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has stun attacked Malice69/(Edgar Crug) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 100) (Bridge (124,134,4))
[2022-03-04 11:16:01.484] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has kicks Malice69/(Edgar Crug) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 100) (Bridge (124,134,4))
[2022-03-04 11:16:01.485] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has shoved Malice69/(Edgar Crug) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100) (Bridge (124,134,4))
[2022-03-04 11:16:04.166] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has stun attacked Malice69/(Edgar Crug) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 100) (Bridge (124,134,4))
[2022-03-04 11:16:06.344] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has attempted to handcuff Malice69/(Edgar Crug) (NEWHP: 100) (Bridge (122,134,4))
[2022-03-04 11:16:09.312] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has handcuffed Malice69/(Edgar Crug) (NEWHP: 100) (Bridge (122,134,4))
[2022-03-04 11:16:09.754] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has grabbed Malice69/(Edgar Crug) passive grab (NEWHP: 100) (Bridge (122,134,4))
[2022-03-04 11:18:07.853] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has grabbed Malice69/(Edgar Crug) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 100) (Fore Operating Room (159,105,4))
[2022-03-04 11:18:15.054] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has grabbed Malice69/(Edgar Crug) passive grab (NEWHP: 100) (Fore Operating Room (160,105,4))
[2022-03-04 11:18:16.888] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has grabbed Malice69/(Edgar Crug) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 100) (Fore Operating Room (160,105,4))
[2022-03-04 11:18:18.777] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has grabbed Malice69/(Edgar Crug) passive grab (NEWHP: 100) (Fore Operating Room (160,105,4))
You also raided the armory for some reason which shows you lied about stealing high-risk shit AND the killing.
► Show Spoiler
[2022-03-04 11:22:25.448] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has fired at [floor] with the laser from Armory (Armory (116,179,4))
[2022-03-04 11:22:25.500] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has shot ShadowedEnvy/(Etherea Nell) with the laser (NEWHP: 63.5) (Armory (116,179,4))
[2022-03-04 11:22:25.932] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has fired at [floor] with the laser from Armory (Armory (116,179,4))
[2022-03-04 11:22:26.002] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has shot ShadowedEnvy/(Etherea Nell) with the laser (NEWHP: 43.5) (Armory (116,179,4))
[2022-03-04 11:22:26.480] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has fired at [floor] with the laser from Armory (Armory (117,179,4))
[2022-03-04 11:22:26.989] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has fired at [��Armory omni air vent LAk19] with the laser from Armory (Armory (116,179,4))
[2022-03-04 11:22:27.694] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has fired at [floor] with the laser from Armory (Armory (118,179,4))
[2022-03-04 11:22:27.951] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has shot ShadowedEnvy/(Etherea Nell) with the laser (NEWHP: 23.5) (Armory (117,179,4))
[2022-03-04 11:22:28.193] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has fired at [mechanical toolbox] with the laser from Armory (Armory (116,179,4))
[2022-03-04 11:22:28.959] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has fired at [floor] with the laser from Armory (Armory (118,179,4))
[2022-03-04 11:22:29.254] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has shot ShadowedEnvy/(Etherea Nell) with the laser (NEWHP: 3.5) (Armory (116,179,4))
[2022-03-04 11:22:29.849] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has fired at [table] with the laser from Armory (Armory (116,179,4))
[2022-03-04 11:24:48.027] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (Central Primary Hallway (97,136,4))
[2022-03-04 11:24:48.444] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (Central Primary Hallway (97,138,4))
[2022-03-04 11:24:49.004] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (Central Primary Hallway (97,141,4))
[2022-03-04 11:24:49.590] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has shot DashingMoustacheTales/(Sankt Val) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 100) (Central Primary Hallway (97,137,4))
[2022-03-04 11:24:49.972] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (Central Primary Hallway (97,135,4))
[2022-03-04 11:24:50.907] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (Central Primary Hallway (97,133,4))
[2022-03-04 11:24:51.093] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has shot DashingMoustacheTales/(Sankt Val) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 100) (Central Primary Hallway (97,134,4))
[2022-03-04 11:24:51.311] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (Central Primary Hallway (97,135,4))
[2022-03-04 11:24:51.594] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has shot DashingMoustacheTales/(Sankt Val) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 100) (Central Primary Hallway (97,135,4))
[2022-03-04 11:24:51.740] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (Central Primary Hallway (97,135,4))
[2022-03-04 11:24:51.994] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has shot DashingMoustacheTales/(Sankt Val) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 100) (Central Primary Hallway (97,133,4))
[2022-03-04 11:24:52.103] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (Central Primary Hallway (97,132,4))
[2022-03-04 11:24:55.632] ATTACK: Longestarmlonglaw/(Gerald Lopez) has attempted to handcuff DashingMoustacheTales/(Sankt Val) (NEWHP: 100) (Central Primary Hallway (97,130,4))
Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:27 am
by Longestarmlonglaw
They literally escalated to violence first, I only raided the armory after they incited people to try murder me,
And i was the organ thief , i printed some basic cybernetic organs before i steal organs from people,
I later discovered the armory raider was a thief with the nuke disk theft, So i gave it to them, epipened them, and tried to get them to medbay, but the epi healed them out of crit
Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:37 am
by Mothblocks
@carshalash You have to post your source of logs, this doesn't even give a round ID.
Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:03 am
by carshalash
Mothblocks wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:37 am
@carshalash You have to post your source of logs, this doesn't even give a round ID.
Manuel round 179400 (Check em)
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... nd-179400/
Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:16 am
by Mothblocks
Looks like it was ahelped, but there was no admin online.
That being said, OP are you referring to LRP restrictions here (seeing as you mentioned "very restricted in who they can kill, not protected by rule 4")?
Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:59 am
by Longestarmlonglaw
I think your missing the poiny where they escalated against me with violence first, which opted me to raid the armory for protection which allowed me to identity a fellow thief with nuke disk theft
And i repeated that "Im an organ harveter, not a syndicate agent, Which was outing me as a thief,"
Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:50 am
by kieth4
Hello, let me just add that a lot of thief objectives make them valid, regardless of antag status. e.g stealing organs from people, stealing from the armoury, stealing from brig. These are all things that you can and will be round removed for.
Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 8:13 pm
by dragomagol
The ruling for thieves already covers how security should be treating thieves. If players are going against this, please ahelp. If you are acting like a full antag would, you are still susceptible to rule 4: Non-antags acting like an antag can be treated as an antag.
Headmin Votes:
Dragomagol: Agree
RaveRadbury: Agree
NamelessFairy: Agree