/tg/Station 13

quite frankly "detective isn't an officer" stops being a thing about 1 nanosecond into the round because
1. sec officers never follow up on your leads
2. sec officers will never come help you with arrests
3. if you want to have any fun as detective you have to break the rules and play detective as a security officer

Can you elaborate more on what you mean WRT policy? The word "detective" doesn't come up once in security policy.

i'm pretty sure that admins enforce including on LRP that the detective is not allowed to make arrests if there's a reasonable way to get security officers to do so

iamgoofball wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:20 am i'm pretty sure that admins enforce including on LRP that the detective is not allowed to make arrests if there's a reasonable way to get security officers to do so

I don't think I've seen anyone ahelp being arrested by the detective and no admins on Sybil that I've seen have bwoinked a detective for doing so either.

iamgoofball wrote:1. sec officers never follow up on your leads

You should set the person who you're investigating to arrest and include a reason with your findings, that way officers see the red W and will absolutely followup.

iamgoofball wrote:2. sec officers will never come help you with arrests

Detective has a baton and can easily acquire cuffs. If you really wanted to arrest someone it wouldn't be much harder than it is for an officer to do it.

iamgoofball wrote:i'm pretty sure that admins enforce including on LRP that the detective is not allowed to make arrests if there's a reasonable way to get security officers to do so

This is definitely false.
Making det a full officer would just make it officer + wooden baton + revolver, and it'd be even less distinct as its own role.

iamgoofball wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:20 am i'm pretty sure that admins enforce including on LRP that the detective is not allowed to make arrests if there's a reasonable way to get security officers to do so

This isn't true, on the standard ruleset there is no rule or policy mandating that only security can detain people. You appear to be confusing the roleplay rule 10 with the standard ruleset which is not applicable on our standard servers. I also personally don't think forbids detectives from making arrests on our roleplay servers if the situation calls for it but obligatory "I'm not a MRP admin".

Anyways as for the main policy you are discussing. Point 1 and 2 are not things that can be solved with rule changes, your suggestion of making them "full security" would also not solve these.
Point 3 appears to be based on incorrect assumptions. You can have fun as a detective without breaking rules, else nobody would ever play detective, the rulebreak that you are insinuating also doesn't exist as we have no rules against detectives acting as security.

I'd also like to echo Mothblocks request again.

Mothblocks wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:13 am Can you elaborate more on what you mean WRT policy? The word "detective" doesn't come up once in security policy.

What actual policy changes are you trying to make, making the detective a "full officer" doesn't seem to imply any rule or config changes.

NamelessFairy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:03 am This isn't true, on the standard ruleset there is no rule or policy mandating that only security can detain people. You appear to be confusing the roleplay rule 10 with the standard ruleset which is not applicable on our standard servers. I also personally don't think forbids detectives from making arrests on our roleplay servers if the situation calls for it but obligatory "I'm not a MRP admin".

It might not be policy, but I think clarification would be nice. Years ago on Sybil (well before Manuel was a thing), I recall a rather unpleasant round where I needed help to arrest someone as sec. Security was understaffed, so I asked the detective to help and was met with "I'm a detective. I don't arrest people. GLHF". Ended up getting murdered when the perp's metafriends ganked me. Not sure if the admin follow-up ended with any bans/notes, but the whole situation would have been avoided if said detective wasn't under the impression that participating in arrests was outside the scope of his duties.

I always enjoyed Detective being a unique role, like Warden.
Detective has a unique sidearm, and a unique tool, the fingerprint scanner. Detective used to start with thermals, and on some servers had the chance of being round-start antags.
Detectives are different. They should be treated as such.
Them not having full access to sec can be annoying, and that would be arguable on a map by map basis.

I just don't agree with your assessment Goof, Detective is the only security role that I play because it isn't a sec officer. If I am watching the cams and I see something, radio it in, If we have other sec they are going to check into it.

Farquaar wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:19 am It might not be policy, but I think clarification would be nice. Years ago on Sybil (well before Manuel was a thing), I recall a rather unpleasant round where I needed help to arrest someone as sec. Security was understaffed, so I asked the detective to help and was met with "I'm a detective. I don't arrest people. GLHF". Ended up getting murdered when the perp's metafriends ganked me. Not sure if the admin follow-up ended with any bans/notes, but the whole situation would have been avoided if said detective wasn't under the impression that participating in arrests was outside the scope of his duties.

Clarification on what?? "Yes, roleplay rule 10 only applies to roleplay servers"? There's nothing to clarify.
Detectives can choose to play however they want. You'll get people mad at you for treating it like sec officer + gun, and you'll also get people mad at you for butting-out and only doing investigative work. I don't think that detective years ago was under any "impression" a headmin ruling would solve, they were just playing the role as they viewed it.

Detective should absolutely not be a full officer and if anything the policy around it should be restricted further. What's the point of having Detective be a different role if it's just Sec Off With A Revolver?

And it's a role that offers so much actual variety, that to just absorb it into standard SecOff would be an absolute waste of it. If you want to be an Officer, play Officer.

iamgoofball wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:20 am i'm pretty sure that admins enforce including on LRP that the detective is not allowed to make arrests if there's a reasonable way to get security officers to do so

It mostly just has a reputation for Cowboy Cop Detectives, sometimes with the revolver modified for .357, shooting people until decapitation as their "arrest"

iamgoofball wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:20 am i'm pretty sure that admins enforce including on LRP that the detective is not allowed to make arrests if there's a reasonable way to get security officers to do so

Have you actually seen any admin enforce this?

I've never seen any admin give a shit on LRP about the detective arresting people unless he's using excessive force and never made a distinction between him and any other member of security

I don't see any strong policy this is pointing at removing, and I've never seen the issues of admins forbidding detectives arresting, so I'm just going to close this thread now unless another headmin wants it lifted.