/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2022 2:44 pm**

The current rules for antag tokens are:

► Show Spoiler

Antagonist tokens are simply a note an admin gives a player which allows them to trade in for antagonist. These are given in cases where an admin may ruin an round beyond the point of any redemption. In some cases these are given as rewards for specific events like the wiki drive or feature freeze with approval from headmins for them to be given.

These tokens may be given away by admins should they mess up a standard round; as in a round that didn't have any specific admin event running and was going on its natural course before a mistake was committed. What do I mean by messing up? Well, things like crashing the server or spawning things in that ended up making the round unplayable from lag.

Tokens are not to be given when something outside an admin's control happens; such as the server just locking up and crashing without an admin doing anything, team antagonist killing each other by accident or even incidentally, and the player losing connection and dying. They WILL NOT be given just because you feel like giving one out for something or the other.

These tokens are not to be given out lightly; somethings should be taken into consideration such as the above mentioned reasons, round length, and was the round about over if a token should be given. If the round was practically going to be over with the shuttle on it's way then it wouldn't really warrant a token be handed out when the antagonist generally made good use of the previous round at that point. Alternatives should be considered as well before handing out tokens, such as recreating the previous round. If you messed up a round up that hardly is underway; is acknowledge your error, apologize to everyone, and try to recreate the previous round. As in set the mode to secret and make the affected antagonist from the previous round the same antagonist type or less. Example, you crashed the server by accident and it was traitor. You apologize for the error and then remake the previous round's traitors as traitors for the new round. The issue generally gets resolved without much drama at that point that is fair to everyone.

If a token has to be given; do not give them being vague and open. You need to specify what antagonist type was affected and what they are allowed to trade for as to prevent a larger number of people being able to "trade up" for something rarer/stronger. Example: If you messed up a traitor round, you need to specify that they are allowed to trade for traitor or something that is lesser like revenant. Exercise similar judgement and restraint that is used with telecrystal trades. Additionally, when a TC trade occurs you should try to put them in rounds where it doesn't end up causing more confusion than is needed. Using the previous example of the traitor round; when you let someone claim the token you shouldn't put them in the middle of a cult round as a traitor.

In all honesty, the best solution to this is try not to fuck shit up as we don't want to make a habit of handing tokens out. Repeatedly interfering with rounds can result in punishment if a trend is seen doing such and any notes regarding tokens may be examined. Additionally, if you are unsure of a situation where you believe they are warranted; you can consult with others in adminbus and specifically try to consult with a headmin.

I think admins should be trusted to give out antag tokens for good behaviour or roleplay or whatever. Thoughts?

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2022 2:57 pm**

Agreed! Admin Restriction on events should be looser too. (Whatever those are)

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2022 2:58 pm**

I used to give out NabskiCoins on occasion. They weren't quite antag tokens but they were to be redeemed by me (or anyone else willing) for a minor boon. This restriction wasn't an issue because I was adminning about 75% of my nonwork waking hours (which turned out to not be fine in the end).

They were as you said, given out for good behaviour or roleplay.
Things that come to mind were guiding newer players through rounds, reporting bugs that they found on github, participating well in an event (typically when I needed "someone from centcomm" as a ghost role), winning musical chairs, building a very elaborate BSA but not getting a chance to fire it.

Half the time it never even made it into the note record and was just instantly redeemed for something silly, as was intended.

They were inspired by someone having given out a hat token, redeemable for one hat of their choice.

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:43 pm**

Antag tokens are about the single least interesting thing you can possibly give a player as a reward.

What I suggest the admin team do instead is precisely what Nabski did. When we last discussed Admin Tokens last term, Hulk mentioned he did exatly the same thing too.

If you want to give a reward to players that is intended to last past the current shift, my advice is do Fun Tokens instead.

Fun Tokens has never been a problem, I believe players tend to enjoy them a lot more and they are arguably far healther for the game.

And it wouldn't require a change in policy, because admins have always been able to reward players what do real gud shit on da servers.

Posted: **Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:00 am**

Timberpoes wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:43 pm Antag tokens are about the single least interesting thing you can possibly give a player as a reward.

What I suggest the admin team do instead is precisely what Nabski did. When we last discussed Admin Tokens last term, Hulk mentioned he did exatly the same thing too.

Would you be happy to make a headmin proclamation that we're alllowed to give out 'fun' tokens? I've been scared to give such things in the past

Posted: **Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:06 am**

what is a fun token

Posted: **Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:39 am**

cybersaber101 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:06 am what is a fun token

Pretty much what Nabski described. It's an alternative to an antag token that's good for some fun admemery.

We had an admin team meeting last term and as part of that I discussed how we apply antag token policy (spoiler: Speakling as a headmin 6 months after that meeting, a majority of the tokens handed out don't comply with out internal policy on them).

I have the following notes written down about fun tokens as a preferred alternative to antag tokens.

Hulkamania giving out Hulk Tokens, which allows players to trade in for a random admin boon of Hulk’s choosing such as a funny piece of clothing or interesting item. This may be a healthier alternative where a full antag token isn’t really called for.

Posted: **Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:49 am**

True. There is a lot of stuff admins have in the admin vault that I'd like to see more often.

Whens the last time you guys have seen a Gangs Uzi? A great weapon forgone and forgotten.

Posted: **Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:59 pm**

Why not both?

I feel like gatekeeping antag sololy behind a d(Current server pop) is just bad and makes players who high roll do the samething that is most powerful and prevents creative. I think if admins were allowed to hand out tokens on a 1-2 week cd per admin for people who do fun/creative stuff or just for being a good sport will translate that into being an antag.

Posted: **Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:51 pm**

Fun tokens are already able to be given out pretty freely

Antag tokens are a bit narrower and IMO should be because

they imply that antag rounds are more valuable in some way, which we're trying to avoid
they're "generalized," in the sense that if someone cashes in an antag token I go "cool here you go" and there are no strings attached, no requirement to be fun for everyone with it, etc.
in Anno Dynamic, most rounds are EXTREMELY antag-overloaded by the one-hour mark
if someone is going to do smaller cool stuff, they can ahelp to ask for it anyway (e.g. "I need a mech action figure for another character's birthday gift, admins help help help"), but a fun token/adminopoly money indicates that we expect they'll do Fun Things for everyone and can be trusted with Ideas

Posted: **Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:44 pm**

Is this something that was decided on?

If so, is this going to be used to revamp the current written forum post on antagonist tokens?

Or...

Will a section be added to that thread regarding 'fun tokens' to have it written down somewhere for futures sake and to be pointed at when needed?

Posted: **Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:18 am**

I, personally, don't want admins giving antag tokens out more freely. I feel antag tokens are one of the single least interesting rewards that an admin can give to a player and I would prefer them consigned to either community drives where no better reward can be thought of (such as Wiki drives or code drives) or to when an admin monumentally fucks up a shift before any antags have had a chance to get the ball rolling and the admin cannot do anything to remedy the situation without resorting to an antag token.

There are plenty of alternatives admins can do to reward players who do cool stuff. Fun tokens are simple one such example that fall into the broad category of positive notes - In this case positive notes with adminbus consequences.

I don't think this needs to be codified anywhere, we've got enough red tape. Coming up with interesting and creative rewards for people who do good is as inherent to the admin condition as coming up with suitable punishments for people who do bad. I encourage admins to use their experiences as a player in pursuit of this.

I also enocourage any admin to open up a discussion in bus when they're done plum outta ideas. The admin team as a whole is creative and you'll usually be given more fun ideas to reward a player from one discussion than you can use in a month.

Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean an admin can't make a player an antag. But that can be done **without** an antag token. I've made a CMO into a revhead once when shitsec beat them and brigged them for reviving a traitor in medbay. I've made countless malf AIs out of people spammed with law changes. I invited a lawyer to Central, field promoted them and tasked them with investigating corruption on the station after I saw them do some cool roleplay and got totally ignored and had their headset and PDA taken by sec.

My first experience of admin interaction, before I knew the station layouts and when I could barely handle the game's controls, was when JusticeGoat spawned me some others in as interns to provide an audience for a Clown and Prisoner that were doing a theatre act. I think this kind of thing is way cooler than an antag token. A good admin interaction creates memories that last years.

Posted: **Mon Aug 29, 2022 3:15 am**

As a hostile and murder-boning hijack wizard I accepted the clown's invitation to Russian roulette (after gibbing a medical doctor who just wanted to spectate) After I won the bout of roulette, I was awarded with a nice feeling in my heart and a trophy that an admin spawned in. Better than any antag token.

Posted: **Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:34 am**

We don't really want to encourage an increase in how antag tokens are currently distributed, however alternate methods of rewarding players for in-round behaviors are always welcomed per admin discretion.

/tg/Station 13

Let admins give out antag tokens more freely

Let admins give out antag tokens more freely

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Re: Let admins give out antag tokens more freely

Re: Let admins give out antag tokens more freely

Re: Let admins give out antag tokens more freely