/tg/Station 13

"She's over 70% cybernetic, that means we treat her as a borg not a human woman."

How about if once someone is augmented beyond a certain point they are no longer considered human?

Think about it; once you've replaced both arms, both legs, your torso, and your head the only organic part left of you is your brain - the same of amount of you that would be left after getting borged.

This is a pointless question. There is no need to go super deep on what makes someone human or not, because it will only cause gameplay issues.
mechanically everything is fine as it is now.
If they are carbon/human, they are human.
if they are a borg, they are a borg.
nip this one in the bud.

I was thinking about this today

If you are a human, you cannot abandon human classification despite augmentation

Borg = borg
Human = human

danno wrote:This is a pointless question. There is no need to go super deep on what makes someone human or not, because it will only cause gameplay issues.
mechanically everything is fine as it is now.
If they are carbon/human, they are human.
if they are a borg, they are a borg.
nip this one in the bud.

Theres plans to expand augments from the looks of things.

Its worth getting a policy in place pre-emptively before we get the issues similar to "Hulks are assholes and there's jack shit silicons can do against them"

Fair enough
Admins please make it very clear that getting augments doesn't make you non-human

I was asked to comment on this and make a decision.

My decision is I'm the host and your elected headmins and adminstaff should decide. Not me.

danno wrote:If they are carbon/human, they are human.

Lizards are /mob/living/carbon/human, you FOOL.

But I'm fairly certain this has been long since established. Some things do cause you to loose human status. Becoming a monkey, lizard or podperson is a prime example. Becoming a hulk is another, not so great example. Being fully augmented does not cause you to stop being human, however.

well yeah true.
with the exception of hulks and lizards and plantmen(unsure about that one) is what I meant.

Mutantraces are not human and hulks are really really contentious and spent a few weeks of argument and code fuckery before we go to what we have now.

Keep It Simple Stupid.

There's no need to complicate things.

Chances are the augs will be at least partially covered up (most people wear a jumpsuit or a coat or a hat), so you're unlikely to be able to tell if they're fully augmented. That means most AIs have to treat them as human regardless unless they're 100% certain.

You mean I would have to name a borg Decker and go around stripping troublemakers in the hunt for Replicunts?

Sounds good to me

Hunting hidden imposters should be a gamemode, you get a few details about them and what they look like then BANG, the hunt is on.

Cyborgs are bound by laws, augmented humans are not.

That should be the main thing that should be the decider.

Lizards aren't bound by laws either...

Also we have precedence of humans becoming non-human through voluntarily changing their bodies: Slime-people.

but slimepeople and lizards AND humans can all get augments
is an augmented lizard a double-non-human
is a slimepersoned-augmented-lizard a triple non human
woah
what if they're hulked too

PKPenguin321 wrote:but slimepeople and lizards AND humans can all get augments
is an augmented lizard a double-non-human
is a slimepersoned-augmented-lizard a triple non human
woah
what if they're hulked too

Humanity or lack thereof is binary

How easy is it for a silicon to tell at a glance whether someone is fully augmented or just mostly augmented?
This seems like an edge case that's just going to get AIs banned because they miscalled how many augments someone had.

Luckily auged people are humans, so don't think too much about it.

Jacquerel wrote:How easy is it for a silicon to tell at a glance whether someone is fully augmented or just mostly augmented?
This seems like an edge case that's just going to get AIs banned because they miscalled how many augments someone had.

Clothed?
Pretty hard

Naked?
Easy.

"please take off all your clothes so i can verify you are a woman."

[AI was permab&ed for ERP]

Permabampersanded?

Also, yeah, fuck the 'x augments makes you non-human' sentiment, it's going to be hard to control and will most likely serve little practical purpose.

The brain argument doesn't really make sense, lizards and monkeys have brains too and they're not human

BORGS have human brains and are explicitly not human, so the brain argument is DOA.

Yeah, they were non-human to begin with


Edit: Speaking of which, what would happen to a borg that would drag liggers by force into the surgery room to have their brains swapped into monkey human bodies by a crazy surgeon?

Malkevin wrote:Edit: Speaking of which, what would happen to a borg that would drag liggers by force into the surgery room to have their brains swapped into monkey human bodies by a crazy surgeon?

Depends on the situation and RP of the "gimmick", but generally mass killings of non-humans "because valid" is generally looked at as a Rule 1 situation, you're being a dick and spoiling other peoples game.

Unless it was something like the captain forcing all Lizards to be borged, which would give them a chance to at least rebel or other interesting scenarios to come about.

So let's see, this policy would be difficult to log or enforce by administration. It would be very difficult for AI or borgs to determine on which side of the 'you will be banned line' they are. Taking away the humanity of fully-auged people serves precisely no positive function or purpose for the round and does not make things more interesting. Taking away a group's humanity can only possibly lead to a greater level of grief against that group. For no reason.

There isn't any upside to this idea.

It's counter to the advantage augs give, like how slime people are dehumanned for always being friends with slimes

But non-human races can also get auged, if you want to add a downside it would need to affect them too.
And not be so awful to enforce.

The downside is that you're weak to EMPs, you can't heal yourself with standard medicine (so every M.D. ever will look at you in confusion when bruise packs fail), and that it takes a fair bit of effort and metal to fully augment someone.

EMPs are rare unless you work with the singulo, you can however heal yourself with welder fuel and wires - both of which are just lying about the station everywhere, takes less metal than it does to borg someone fully.

Its actually a few pretty severe downsides, EMPs are rare but pretty much instantly fatal to a fully auged person and the inability to be healed by doctors for most damage is an issue if you are sitting in crit due to a beating/fire and they have to leave you doped up on everything in cryo just to keep you from getting worse if they don't have a welder/wires on hand.

And to top it off, the benefits aren't great either. Whoopee, I don't need to breathe and greyshirts have to use an oxygen tank to lynch me instead of their fists.
Sure was worth it.