/tg/Station 13

Current Admin policy is to not give Antag tokens to Antags that round if the game server crashes and Resets if an admin does not claim responsibility for said crash.

My main Issue with this policy is that the Server itself crashing is an issue completely outside of players control, and server crashes are not that common, even including the admin caused ones. I doubt giving tokens to people for their antag rounds being taken would break the bank of antag tokens.

>10 or so people get an antag token because of a crashed round
>10 or so people roll antag naturally next round
>20 antag extravaganza

this will happen every time there is a crash

Black orbits exist, and most people probably wouldn't roll the token the next round over because Of said increase in antaggery
>15 ish antag extravaganza after the once in a blue moon server crash

antag tokens being given when an admin ruins the round is because, without their intervention, you would still be antagonist. it also hopefully helps to make sure the admin thinks more cautiously in the future, since checking who was an antagonist and giving out all the notes is very very annoying

if it's outside of anyone's control, then i don't think anyone deserves anything. sometimes your round is screwed over. ignoring how annoying it is to ensure everyone gets a token, we have regularly had problems in the past where faulty code causes repeated server crashes (like that one grav gen thing). i would not want admins wasting their time giving out all the tokens every time that happens

plus without antag rep, every round has the same chances of you being an antag. nothing was wasted

i would rather admins be more comfortable doing cool event stuff after a server crash to ease the pain

additionally as mothblocks said antag tokens are not an automated system so in the event a black orbit shift crashes some poor admin will have to hand out 20 antag tokens then immediately spend the entirety of next round on people redeeming those tokens because everyone wants the antag they just got screwed out of

Really bad real example would be around Q2 in 2021, Terry would for about 3 months straight crash at about 30-45 minutes in a high pop round. This was eventually fixed but every single day multiple rounds would get scratched for three months straight. Thats a LOT of antag tokens, and nothing we (as admins) can do anything about.

Heck, if anything people deserved paintings tokens, was a lot of art going on at that time and it was all lost when the server bombed out.

The next step would be covering for DDOS's making the round unplayable and again that would tend to churn out tokens like a hollywood slot machine winnings.

admin tokens are for admin fuckups, if they want to hand them out.
code fuckups are acts of god, you will get no sympathy from me

You get my empathy in this situation but unfortunately not my sympathy. It sucks to have a potentially great round just get snuffed out of existence.

I'm one of those that are willing do whatever I can to get something like a gimmick back on it's feet when the time is right, but this seems like a headache.

Too much overhead honestly. What if everyone ahelps about it? What if only one does? What if someone forgets to?

It's not really something where we can give anyone anything outside of antag or some kind of token in general.

Back when antag rep was a thing I had no problems with just bumping people's up during certain situations but that was another age.

Is there some other solution to this to be considered?

Bumping up round threat for example, or events occuring more often.

Bumping up round threat for example, or events occuring more often.

yeah, stuff like this is what i meant and what I've always done

TheFinalPotato wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:30 am admin tokens are for admin fuckups, if they want to hand them out.
code fuckups are acts of god, you will get no sympathy from me

Code fuckups are acts of you, maintainer

I see through your lies

(just in case clarification for anyone having trouble, no this is not serious, nobody can reasonably foresee all the things that can crash a round and anything consistent about it gets speedmerged fixes pretty fast anyway)

Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:28 am Code fuckups are acts of you, maintainer

I see through your lies

(just in case clarification for anyone having trouble, no this is not serious, nobody can reasonably foresee all the things that can crash a round and anything consistent about it gets speedmerged fixes pretty fast anyway)

you can't be ironic if you qualify your irony after to cushion it bro that's irony 101. you can't dish the heat if you ain't willing to get some ash on your hands..

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:26 pm

Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:28 am Code fuckups are acts of you, maintainer

I see through your lies

(just in case clarification for anyone having trouble, no this is not serious, nobody can reasonably foresee all the things that can crash a round and anything consistent about it gets speedmerged fixes pretty fast anyway)

you can't be ironic if you qualify your irony after to cushion it bro that's irony 101. you can't dish the heat if you ain't willing to get some ash on your hands..

This but unironically

If a round crashes with no admins present at the time, are admins required to come online solely to dig through the previous round's logs to see who was an antag and give out tokens accordingly?

When the game crashes without admin intervention you should not get an antag token, because nobody is at fault.

Antag tokens for admins breaking a round are an apology for messing you up.

admins should get a convenient button to give all antags of a certain round a token, preferably by inputting the round ID. it should only go like 10 rounds back though so coders and MSO don't scream that the antag log is hogging a few valuable terabytes of shitcode

Do people not understand how antag tokens work? It's not a discrete item, it's just an admin note/remark.

san7890 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:25 pm Do people not understand how antag tokens work? It's not a discrete item, it's just an admin note/remark.

It was to be expected that this would create confusion when what they actually are isn't publicly posted someplace and then ended up getting posted to a policy thread out of the blue for example, with the last thread.

It is in the very least a tragicomedy that keeps on giving.

People will continue to not get how they work at a higher rate than they need to be until its public facing. Its an unfortunate that will just keep coming up every so often regardless of what happens.

Mandating antag tokens is fucking cringe. That's always been our stance on it, it's completely up to the admin in question.

You aren't beholden to your antag round like it's some sort of unalienable right. If you're only here to play antag, I suggest you leave.

Vekter wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:48 pm Mandating antag tokens is fucking cringe. That's always been our stance on it, it's completely up to the admin in question.

You aren't beholden to your antag round like it's some sort of unalienable right. If you're only here to play antag, I suggest you leave.

If you can't handle players who enjoy antag more than regular play, I suggest you find a new hobby.

Personally I enjoy playing regularly more, but if I rolled wizard (Something I haven't done, ever) and it was taken away because of a server crash, I'd hope you be more understanding than "leave the server, then"

Tearling wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:36 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:48 pm Mandating antag tokens is fucking cringe. That's always been our stance on it, it's completely up to the admin in question.

You aren't beholden to your antag round like it's some sort of unalienable right. If you're only here to play antag, I suggest you leave.

If you can't handle players who enjoy antag more than regular play, I suggest you find a new hobby.

Personally I enjoy playing regularly more, but if I rolled wizard (Something I haven't done, ever) and it was taken away because of a server crash, I'd hope you be more understanding than "leave the server, then"

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I don't think these should be mandated because I don't think they should be handed out often, nor do I think players should expect to receive them in specific situations. It is extremely irritating to start a round after a crash and have 4-5 people adminhelp at once asking for one.

The purpose of antag tokens is to reimburse someone in the event that an admin takes action that screws their round up. Any other instance where they're handed out is based on admin generosity and shouldn't be expected as an entitlement.

blackdav123 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:01 am >10 or so people get an antag token because of a crashed round
>10 or so people roll antag naturally next round
>20 antag extravaganza

this will happen every time there is a crash

how is this a problem

Getting antag is a game of chance, so is the server crashing or not.

People are spoiled with long rounds these days back in the old days you'd be lucky if it wasn't a slideshow or crashed after 45 minutes. That and 1/4 of rounds ended in like 20 minute because some poor sausage didn't set up the field properly and goose got loose. Also 40 minutes in there was like 20% chance some antag got two bags of holding and again the goose got loose.

There is zero interest in this term in having admins give out tokens if a round crashes for non-admin related reasons. The server crashing is an assumed risk to anyone who wants to play on our servers, and it's an incredibly high overhead to throw out tokens whenever a server crashes. As mentioned, there is no "entitlement" to a token. It's an apology for when an admin messes up, and sometimes things happen out of our control. That's life sometimes, unfortunately.