/tg/Station 13

Latejoin revs sucks. Hamfisting revs in 60 minutes into a round, or 5 minutes before the shuttle arrives delaying the round for 30 minutes that it really should not go for is less than ideal. Either because everyone is too busy dying to something else, or the round has gone on for 30 hours and the friendly blob and friendly xenos are singing kumbayas while the friendly space dragon beatboxes in the background, and the revs sneeze in a slightly socialist manner and get collapsed on by the equivalent force of a thousand motorized scooter riding McCarthyism enjoyers. Neither is an enjoyable use of threat. Turn it off pls ty.

I'm inclined to agree. Late Join revs usually winds up being a stomp, in favour of whichever side was already winning before it started, and usually just annoys people as the Revs won't be strong enough to do anything before the shuttle leaves, forcing a sudden scramble to try and Mindshield everyone and find the headrevs quickly, while the Headrev realizes that they're not going to be able to do anything and just hides.

Even when it works, Cult is a directly equivalent mode, and can only form roundstart, so it feels strange that Revs can midround, too. It feels better, thematically, as something that's primarily roundstart, but occasionally nudged by Admins to start midround if Command's getting a little too fucky wucky.

Funnily enough I have lowered the weight of provocateur on the MRP dynamic config twice

My perspective of latejoin revs on Sybil is much different. I find them often stronger or just as strong as roundstart revs, because the crew isn't ready or prepared for revs, or are focusing on other things that they've gotten entrenched in during the round. Revs have started having much more success after the dynamic changes and I think provocateur is a contributing factor.

I've been trying to get statistics for how often provocateur rolls but I've had no luck so if anyone knows how to get said details please tell me.
As for my opinion that I can't back up with data yet unfortunately, please for the love of god lower that weight, I swear I'm seeing midround revs almost every round, this used to be extremely rare AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Yeah, like half the time I log on to Terry and check antags it's revs. Funny but maybe too much.

I agree, revs is best roundstart

We disabled latejoin revs on MRP for like 2 months and I don't think we got a single revolution round (outside of admin forced) at all for the entire duration of that time

We should really like blackbox executed rulesets or something, MB is the only person I know who can scrape all that dynamic info.

mrmelbert wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:38 am We disabled latejoin revs on MRP for like 2 months and I don't think we got a single revolution round (outside of admin forced) at all for the entire duration of that time

We should really like blackbox executed rulesets or something, MB is the only person I know who can scrape all that dynamic info.

We do have all that information in dynamic.json logs and I can scrape them through Scrubby, and I wanted to throw it on moth.fans at some point. Do you need to know how many times it was ran?

(...Probably ping me if yes)

Here's some (ugly) graphs (data courtesy of mothblocks) for roundstart vs latejoin revolution ruleset executions in the last ~4 months.

Bagil: 8 Provocateur, 0 Revolution
Terry: 135 Provocateur, 53 Revolution
Sybil: 199 Provocateur, 61 Revolution
Manuel: 58 Provocateur, 5 Revolution (<-- Note that this was with the fact that we disabled latejoins on Manuel for 2 of the last 4 months)

Gross

Mid-round revs are fun, my only wish is that the round would end after a revolution. It's incredibly frustrating to be ready to leave then to have the round delayed for ages and not even end after. Worst change regarding revs imo.

mrmelbert wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:58 am Here's some (ugly) graphs (data courtesy of mothblocks) for roundstart vs latejoin revolution ruleset executions in the last ~4 months.

Bagil: 8 Provocateur, 0 Revolution
Terry: 135 Provocateur, 53 Revolution
Sybil: 199 Provocateur, 61 Revolution
Manuel: 58 Provocateur, 5 Revolution (<-- Note that this was with the fact that we disabled latejoins on Manuel for 2 of the last 4 months)

lmfao
we need to invert that graph tbh

mrmelbert wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:58 am Here's some (ugly) graphs (data courtesy of mothblocks) for roundstart vs latejoin revolution ruleset executions in the last ~4 months.

Bagil: 8 Provocateur, 0 Revolution
Terry: 135 Provocateur, 53 Revolution
Sybil: 199 Provocateur, 61 Revolution
Manuel: 58 Provocateur, 5 Revolution (<-- Note that this was with the fact that we disabled latejoins on Manuel for 2 of the last 4 months)

We should make it ideally half and half rather than a 66/33 split. Maybe add a rule that makes it so they dont spawn 5mins before an shuttle.

The others have generally been supportive of my proposals for ongoing changes to antag weights in server side configs as an ongoing source of adjustments to dynamic as feedback comes in.

We haven't officially deliberated on provo for MRP specifically yet, and I'm generally keeping most changes relatively silent to try and get better feedback on the results of changes rather than people's perception of what the results of the changes SHOULD be (people often see patterns where there are none in the random noise of dynamic, and this is massively inflated by the idea that something has theoretically changed, or may have changed, visible in the recent perception on Manuel that cult weight may have been elevated on Manuel when it had not been), but Provo IS something on my list to watch out for, and it'll likely see some tuning in future.

A while ago I made some changes to dynamic configs, among these were changes to the relative and absolute weights of provo by differing amounts across all servers.

These changes seem to have gone well in the long run (from what I've seen and seen reported), but I'll still be keeping an eye on the configs going forward (and potentially though not necessarily making changes)
- Spook