Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

User avatar
san7890
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:12 pm
Byond Username: San7890
Github Username: san7890
Location: here
Contact:

Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by san7890 » #654033

Hey there,

This is a thought I've had kicking around in my mind for the last month or so, making all permanent role bans show up on https://tgstation13.org/tgdb/publicbans.php. Permanent Role Bans encompass any job bans, any antagonist bans, and bans from stuff like OOC and AHELPs that do not have any expiration date. Here's a why I think it's a good idea:

The very first reason is that all permanent role bans, if the player wants to get it lifted, must be appealed. All ban appeals are public, and all ban appeals must include the reason for the ban. There is no "waiting out" a permanent ban, if you want it gone, you have to make the reason for it public in your appeal of that ban. I don't see why we should not make it public from the start, because that ties into a few positive outcomes.
  • Player Transparency. While other servers resent making logs and several other forms of administrative action public, /tg/ seems to have always prioritized sharing as much information as reasonably possible (without leaking personal information you would not want publicly accessible, like CIDs and IP addresses).
  • Policy Failures and Successes: While admins are easily able to look through all the notes and bans and find "problem parts" in our current policy- players are only restricted to knowing what happens at the absolute highest level of punishment (without relevant appeal). Having this information more broadly accessible (with accompanying reason for the ban, and the problematic behavior that required the ban) does provide benefit in that more minds are able to gather this information and apply it in future discussion.
  • Role Ban Frequency: Role bans are not trivial when it comes to routine administrative action. They are regularly applied when necessary. There's nothing trivial about the nature of a role ban either, it is indeed a ban.
  • Good Neighborship: Smaller servers/other ss13 servers do employ liberal usage of functions like https://centcom.melonmesa.com/, which allows you to look up any bans (server or role) from a collection of larger ss13 servers. It's a good utility, and if there's pertinent information about a problematic player, it's a good idea to disseminate it.
I floated this past a few people, and I heard a few criticisms that I thought would be apt to sort of answer-in-advance. Feel free to expand on these lines of thought if you think I didn't adequately address them.
Wouldn't people be able to "meta" that someone's antagonist banned? Like, you know their ckey, know their static, read the publicbans, and you know precisely what type of antagonist they can not be?
This is indeed plausible, and I do indeed see people in the modern times retain knowledge that someone can not be an antagonist (I recall after one player, Maskenary's first appeal of their antagonist ban viewtopic.php?p=651349#p651349, it was a very common topic leveraged to "dunk" on them when people weren't a fan of their playstyle). They made their ban reason and information public, and I don't doubt some people who are in-the-loop on forums stuff may have secretly applied that train-of-thought in game. It's unprovable, but it's not a conclusion without logic.

However, this fails to keep one thing in mind. What use is there in knowing if someone is an antagonist or not? Maybe you know not to grab the guy when you're starting up a cult for fear that they become a mindless husk when they get offered up to ghosts? Do you immediately buddy up with them every single shift because you know they can't be bad? If so, how does that ever have an impact on the progression of a round? I might be failing to see something key here, so input is appreciated.

With my current outlook on this though, I don't see this as a complete-blocking barrier.
This would expose a lot of role bans applied to good faith players by-request.
Firstly, players in good administrative standing request permanent server bans all the time! Just look at the ban appeals forum for "requested", and you'll see. Since it's a requested action, all an admin needs to say is "Requested by player." (could add more if requested by player, but you don't need more than that in essence).

Secondly, they still have to appeal it. It'll be public that they were role-banned for a while when they reveal the reason for the ban in the appeal.

Thirdly, it allows average joes a key insight: What is so critically un-fun in our current game that people are willing to eat a permanent ban so they never have to touch it again? This concept applies to a lot, and I think having that data be fully accessible (rather than just shuffled around admin channels sometimes) has some intrinsic value to it.

Permanent Role Bans should be accessible publically, much like how we make Permanent Server Bans accessible. From a technical standpoint, I was told it's trivial to amend the publicbans page to include these bans, I just want to hear your thoughts on this.
Simultaneously making both the best and worst jokes on the internet. I like looking at maps and code. Learn how to map today!. You may rate me here.
User avatar
Pandarsenic
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
Byond Username: Pandarsenic
Location: AI Upload

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Pandarsenic » #654046

I support it as long as it doesn't separately list every single antag type individually for every antagban we apply

(or they're split onto separate pages. I just don't want the bans crowded with "This dude was banned from WIZARD and NUKE OP and TRAITOR and CHANGELING and HERETIC and SPACE DRAGON and--...")
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
User avatar
iamgoofball
Github User
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:50 pm
Byond Username: Iamgoofball
Github Username: Iamgoofball

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by iamgoofball » #654050

Pandarsenic wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:55 am I support it as long as it doesn't separately list every single antag type individually for every antagban we apply

(or they're split onto separate pages. I just don't want the bans crowded with "This dude was banned from WIZARD and NUKE OP and TRAITOR and CHANGELING and HERETIC and SPACE DRAGON and--...")
it'd be trivial for us to handle that on the front end no problem
cybersaber101
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:30 am
Byond Username: Cybersaber101
Location: Canada, eh?

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by cybersaber101 » #654051

People don't use knowing who's banned in any good faith already so...
The same poster, over and over and over and over and over and-
Imitates-The-Lizards
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:28 am
Byond Username: Typhnox

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Imitates-The-Lizards » #654052

It sounds good to me. I don't see any real downside. Then again, I'm not one of those weirdos who keeps a metagrudge list and might use public antag ban info against someone. But even when considering people who would do such a thing, I don't think it really provides them any benefit. So, go for it.

Edit: You know, after reading all the posts after mine, and seeing all the arguments against it, I am in fact opposed to this info being made public. A lot of people in this community are buttholes who would definitely, absolutely weaponize this information. Do not make this info public.
Last edited by Imitates-The-Lizards on Sun Oct 16, 2022 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Image
User avatar
sinfulbliss
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
Byond Username: SinfulBliss
Location: prisoner re-education chamber

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by sinfulbliss » #654056

I think this is generally a good idea, but it definitely shouldn’t apply to antag bans or requested bans in my opinion.
san7890 wrote: However, this fails to keep one thing in mind. What use is there in knowing if someone is an antagonist or not?
It is extremely useful and will be annoying to put out of one’s mind if you learn about it, particularly if you’re playing sec. Suppose you have a selection of two prints on an emagged cap’s office and are wondering which of them did it, but recall one is antag banned. The good-faith player is now put in a weird spot. Now you sort of have to search them anyway, perhaps even first, in the interest of not metagaming, knowing you will find nothing.

SS13 antag gameplay is only fun because players know anyone around them could be evil. If they know someone is antag banned they have weird meta information and that shouldn’t be intruding IC.
san7890 wrote:Firstly, players in good administrative standing request permanent server bans all the time! Just look at the ban appeals forum for "requested", and you'll see. Since it's a requested action, all an admin needs to say is "Requested by player." (could add more if requested by player, but you don't need more than that in essence).
On the topic of requested bans - I don’t think this appreciates that some players want it to be private and simply won’t request a ban if everyone and their mom will know about it. It can be embarrassing, and I’m not convinced the educational affect of knowing “hey, certain players aren’t enjoying the game!” is worth exposing a player’s private business to their peers.

As someone who requested a few months ban, although I was public about it on Discord, I would expect people to request less bans if it’s made public. Which is actually a bad thing - players usually only request these when they really feel they need them. I guess it’s sort of a privilege people don’t need to have, but any benefit gained from the public knowing X player asked for a permaban (very hard to think of any) is outweighed by the negative effect on the player actually requesting the ban.
Last edited by sinfulbliss on Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
Spoiler:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
EmpressMaia
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:22 pm
Byond Username: EmpressMaia

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by EmpressMaia » #654064

I agree with all of sinfuls points. Also I really hope job bans are made public
User avatar
Pandarsenic
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
Byond Username: Pandarsenic
Location: AI Upload

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Pandarsenic » #654068

Re: antagbans, my inclination is to say...

A lot of people can and have gotten that sort of advantage by being well-known as having disabled antag settings. I doubt the ban database will meaningfully contribute to this. If you know someone well enough to know they have an antagban (requested or otherwise) you know them well enough that you would know their antag settings by reputation anyway.

Agree/disagree
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
User avatar
san7890
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:12 pm
Byond Username: San7890
Github Username: san7890
Location: here
Contact:

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by san7890 » #654077

sinfulbliss wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:54 am -snip-

On the topic of requested bans - I don’t think this appreciates that some players want it to be private and simply won’t request a ban if everyone and their mom will know about it. It can be embarrassing, and I’m not convinced the educational affect of knowing “hey, certain players aren’t enjoying the game!” is worth exposing a player’s private business to their peers.

As someone who requested a few months ban, although I was public about it on Discord, I would expect people to request less bans if it’s made public. Which is actually a bad thing - players usually only request these when they really feel they need them. I guess it’s sort of a privilege people don’t need to have, but any benefit gained from the public knowing X player asked for a permaban (very hard to think of any) is outweighed by the negative effect on the player actually requesting the ban.
If the player is particularly sensitive about wanting a specific ban, an administrator can always just set the ban to expire in the year 2050 or something silly to avoid it being listed as a permanent ban. (I PERSONALLY BELIEVE AN ADMIN SHOULD NEVER DO THIS OUTSIDE OF REQUESTED/WEIRD SCENARIOS. IF YOU WANT THEM GONE FOR MORE THAN A MONTH FOR HAVING BROKEN THE RULES, PERMANENTLY BAN THEM! DON'T FRAME IT ODDLY!). If a headmin term in the future is strict on this even for requested bans, a player can just ask for a year's worth of a role ban, and then ask for another ban every year subsequent. Might be a bit of a hassle (it's easier to apply a ban than remove it), but I don't see any issue in it if the player values their privacy.

As far as the point you made earlier in your post, I do see how that might come up. However, good (non-antagonistic) people still do bad things. Even if they don't have any "YOU'RE VALID AND I'M KILLING YOU NOW" gear on them, what nefarious things are they planning?
Simultaneously making both the best and worst jokes on the internet. I like looking at maps and code. Learn how to map today!. You may rate me here.
User avatar
kieth4
In-Game Head Admin
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:17 pm
Byond Username: Kieth4

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by kieth4 » #654081

I think the more open we are with our bans the better really. I've always wanted fully open bans so If this got put in I would be very glad, I think if you don't want your dirty laundry aired don't be a shitter, it's very easy to avoid getting role bans so highlighting shitters in public is a good deterrent + it's super funny to read the ban reasons.
Image
User avatar
iamgoofball
Github User
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:50 pm
Byond Username: Iamgoofball
Github Username: Iamgoofball

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by iamgoofball » #654082

san7890 wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:30 pm
sinfulbliss wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:54 am -snip-

On the topic of requested bans - I don’t think this appreciates that some players want it to be private and simply won’t request a ban if everyone and their mom will know about it. It can be embarrassing, and I’m not convinced the educational affect of knowing “hey, certain players aren’t enjoying the game!” is worth exposing a player’s private business to their peers.

As someone who requested a few months ban, although I was public about it on Discord, I would expect people to request less bans if it’s made public. Which is actually a bad thing - players usually only request these when they really feel they need them. I guess it’s sort of a privilege people don’t need to have, but any benefit gained from the public knowing X player asked for a permaban (very hard to think of any) is outweighed by the negative effect on the player actually requesting the ban.
If the player is particularly sensitive about wanting a specific ban, an administrator can always just set the ban to expire in the year 2050 or something silly to avoid it being listed as a permanent ban. (I PERSONALLY BELIEVE AN ADMIN SHOULD NEVER DO THIS OUTSIDE OF REQUESTED/WEIRD SCENARIOS. IF YOU WANT THEM GONE FOR MORE THAN A MONTH FOR HAVING BROKEN THE RULES, PERMANENTLY BAN THEM! DON'T FRAME IT ODDLY!). If a headmin term in the future is strict on this even for requested bans, a player can just ask for a year's worth of a role ban, and then ask for another ban every year subsequent. Might be a bit of a hassle (it's easier to apply a ban than remove it), but I don't see any issue in it if the player values their privacy.

As far as the point you made earlier in your post, I do see how that might come up. However, good (non-antagonistic) people still do bad things. Even if they don't have any "YOU'RE VALID AND I'M KILLING YOU NOW" gear on them, what nefarious things are they planning?
also like, conversion antags exist and ghosts take over jobbanned people who get converted

you can't know someone's ckey == specific character in game until post round and acting on that knowledge is literally metagaming
User avatar
Vekter
In-Game Admin
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
Byond Username: Vekter
Location: Fucking around with the engine.

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Vekter » #654086

Job bans yes, antag bans no. Everyone else has already noted why antag bans would be a bad idea. Too much meta info.
AliasTakuto wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you
User avatar
sinfulbliss
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
Byond Username: SinfulBliss
Location: prisoner re-education chamber

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by sinfulbliss » #654089

san7890 wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:30 pm As far as the point you made earlier in your post, I do see how that might come up. However, good (non-antagonistic) people still do bad things. Even if they don't have any "YOU'RE VALID AND I'M KILLING YOU NOW" gear on them, what nefarious things are they planning?
Maybe they are, but they definitely didn’t emag open the HoP office in order to take Ian. If you have to side between them and another player, knowing they aren’t an antag, things get weird. On the one hand you want to put this out of your mind to avoid metagaming. On the other hand you have a critical piece of information that would essentially exonerate one party from any actual antagonistic action. It’s just too annoying to play with this sort of thing in mind to make it worth showing antag bans.
iamgoofball wrote:you can't know someone's ckey == specific character in game until post round and acting on that knowledge is literally metagaming
Except you do know? Kind of weird to say you can’t. It’s metagaming to act on that knowledge yeah, but you still know it, and acting around that knowledge is just too irritating and weird in lots of situations (I’ve brought up two by example).
Spoiler:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
TheFinalPotato
Code Maintainer
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:58 am
Byond Username: LemonInTheDark

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by TheFinalPotato » #654103

Honestly I don't really see the upside. Most of what you mention is just info we already have, or could collect.
I don't think it's worth it to show to other servers. Seems like it just shames people FNR
My ancestors are smiling at me, Imperials. Can you say the same?
Image
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
iamgoofball
Github User
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:50 pm
Byond Username: Iamgoofball
Github Username: Iamgoofball

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by iamgoofball » #654116

sinfulbliss wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:21 pm
iamgoofball wrote:you can't know someone's ckey == specific character in game until post round and acting on that knowledge is literally metagaming
Except you do know? Kind of weird to say you can’t. It’s metagaming to act on that knowledge yeah, but you still know it, and acting around that knowledge is just too irritating and weird in lots of situations (I’ve brought up two by example).
no, you cannot

changelings exist, dna copying exists, the character creator being used to make a perfect clone of someone's character exists

until the logs hit scrubby for each individual round that you see mothblocks the character in, you can't prove that mothblocks the character == jaredfogle the ckey during the round
Last edited by iamgoofball on Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Pandarsenic
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
Byond Username: Pandarsenic
Location: AI Upload

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Pandarsenic » #654118

Ehhh copying someone's character exactly is often considered a bit of a Rule 1/"Don't make it weird" thing
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
User avatar
sinfulbliss
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
Byond Username: SinfulBliss
Location: prisoner re-education chamber

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by sinfulbliss » #654120

iamgoofball wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:52 am
sinfulbliss wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:21 pm
iamgoofball wrote:you can't know someone's ckey == specific character in game until post round and acting on that knowledge is literally metagaming
Except you do know? Kind of weird to say you can’t. It’s metagaming to act on that knowledge yeah, but you still know it, and acting around that knowledge is just too irritating and weird in lots of situations (I’ve brought up two by example).
no, you cannot

changelings exist, dna copying exists, the character creator being used to make a perfect clone of someone's character exists

until the logs hit scrubby for each individual round that you see mothblocks the character in, you can't prove that mothblocks the character == jaredfogle the ckey during the round
Changelings exist therefore you should never assume the character you're talking to is played by the person who usually plays that character? Insane take.
Not to mention all of these things will... Not matter, because if you know the player well enough to know their ckey, you probably also know how their character acts. You'll probably know if it's some guy that stole their DNA. As you should!
Spoiler:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Drag
In-Game Admin
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:16 am
Byond Username: Thedragmeme

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Drag » #654121

The drama and biases already created from our public ban list isn't worth adding to. If someone ahelps and then they go to look at the public bans and see nothing they assume admins arnt doing anything. I'm the opinion of "fuck run it back" and make all bans private unless an appeal is opened
User avatar
RaveRadbury
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:41 am
Byond Username: RaveRadbury
Github Username: RaveRadbury
Location: BK ChatZone
Contact:

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by RaveRadbury » #654126

Drag wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:26 pm The drama and biases already created from our public ban list isn't worth adding to.
Please elaborate and provide some examples on this as it was an initial criticism of public bans and I have not noticed much in the way of drama regarding them.
User avatar
CMDR_Gungnir
Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 11:11 am
Byond Username: CMDR Gungnir

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by CMDR_Gungnir » #654134

Vekter wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:49 pm Job bans yes, antag bans no. Everyone else has already noted why antag bans would be a bad idea. Too much meta info.
I can't believe I'm saying it, but I agree with Goof. With Changelings and ghosts taking over conversion antag folks who are antag banned, the amount of meta info from it is very slim. No difference between people just knowing I have most antags turned off.

Edit:
Drag wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:26 pm The drama and biases already created from our public ban list isn't worth adding to. If someone ahelps and then they go to look at the public bans and see nothing they assume admins arnt doing anything. I'm the opinion of "fuck run it back" and make all bans private unless an appeal is opened
People already know public bans are only for permas, they shouldn't be assuming that Non-Perma-Ban means Nothing Happens, and they should be slapped if they pull that shit.
Zybwivcz
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:30 am
Byond Username: Zybwivcz

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Zybwivcz » #654158

No reason to not make job bans public and every reason to do so for the stated cause of transparency and diagnosing policy and enforcement failures
User avatar
Drag
In-Game Admin
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:16 am
Byond Username: Thedragmeme

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Drag » #654171

RaveRadbury wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 3:46 pm
Drag wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:26 pm The drama and biases already created from our public ban list isn't worth adding to.
Please elaborate and provide some examples on this as it was an initial criticism of public bans and I have not noticed much in the way of drama regarding them.
This is poor phrasing on my part, this comes up more in discussions I've had rather than drama.

Edit because I'm an idiot and hit submit too early:

What I've noticed, especially in regards to players that are unpopular because of their behavior is people will ahelp then check the public ban list and see they were not permanently banned from our servers. They take this and think the player in question is getting off easy and vocalize that they believe the admins arnt doing anything about problematic behavior. When in reality our Perma ban process is usually more involved and based on an escalating punishment scale
User avatar
sinfulbliss
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
Byond Username: SinfulBliss
Location: prisoner re-education chamber

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by sinfulbliss » #654177

Drag wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:59 am What I've noticed, especially in regards to players that are unpopular because of their behavior is people will ahelp then check the public ban list and see they were not permanently banned from our servers. They take this and think the player in question is getting off easy and vocalize that they believe the admins arnt doing anything about problematic behavior. When in reality our Perma ban process is usually more involved and based on an escalating punishment scale
I think the player would be quite dumb to think this because no one can expect someone to get permabanned based off the vast majority of offenses. Most players I know don’t even want the person they ahelp to get permabanned, they just want them to get some sort of repercussion for breaking the rules.

the only time i can recall this happening for me was after ahelping a very clear AI asimov violation which got me directly killed and then seeing the player as AI the very next round despite it being handled by the admin. that was a bit tilting. i didn’t cause any drama from it though or say anything, i was just a bit annoyed internally
Spoiler:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Drag
In-Game Admin
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:16 am
Byond Username: Thedragmeme

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Drag » #654181

sinfulbliss wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:42 am
Drag wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:59 am What I've noticed, especially in regards to players that are unpopular because of their behavior is people will ahelp then check the public ban list and see they were not permanently banned from our servers. They take this and think the player in question is getting off easy and vocalize that they believe the admins arnt doing anything about problematic behavior. When in reality our Perma ban process is usually more involved and based on an escalating punishment scale
I think the player would be quite dumb to think this because no one can expect someone to get permabanned based off the vast majority of offenses. Most players I know don’t even want the person they ahelp to get permabanned, they just want them to get some sort of repercussion for breaking the rules.
See, there's another reason why I'm really against public job and antag bans. First of all these can be weaponized in arguments. I can see a lot of "Well you got banned from x job so that means your opinion is invalid" type of thing. On top of antag bans being able to be metaed. I just overall don't like that information being readily available for non admins, and to me that should apply to all bans including Perma server bans. Overall it irks me
User avatar
sinfulbliss
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
Byond Username: SinfulBliss
Location: prisoner re-education chamber

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by sinfulbliss » #654183

Drag wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:54 am See, there's another reason why I'm really against public job and antag bans. First of all these can be weaponized in arguments. I can see a lot of "Well you got banned from x job so that means your opinion is invalid" type of thing. On top of antag bans being able to be metaed. I just overall don't like that information being readily available for non admins, and to me that should apply to all bans including Perma server bans. Overall it irks me
I agree with you on antag bans for the metagaming issues. Job bans though… Well here’s another benefit I can think of:

Some players will now know when the person is violating their job-ban and be able to report this. I’m not sure if every admin is always informed of every job ban on every player, but there’s probably a good amount of them who aren’t aware of some while adminning.

Like for instance there’s a player that is or was job-banned from sec. Not going to say who to avoid calling them out but, I would regularly see them validhunting as nonsec and basically trying to play security as nonsec, using sec comms working with sec etc., and knowing they were job banned (because they were public about it), and knowing they 100% deserved to be, made me much less inclined to include them or deputize them. Hell, I might have deputized them ordinarily which could have gotten them into trouble.
Spoiler:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Misdoubtful
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:03 pm
Byond Username: Misdoubtful
Location: Delivering hugs!

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Misdoubtful » #654194

Drag wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:54 am
sinfulbliss wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:42 am
Drag wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:59 am What I've noticed, especially in regards to players that are unpopular because of their behavior is people will ahelp then check the public ban list and see they were not permanently banned from our servers. They take this and think the player in question is getting off easy and vocalize that they believe the admins arnt doing anything about problematic behavior. When in reality our Perma ban process is usually more involved and based on an escalating punishment scale
I think the player would be quite dumb to think this because no one can expect someone to get permabanned based off the vast majority of offenses. Most players I know don’t even want the person they ahelp to get permabanned, they just want them to get some sort of repercussion for breaking the rules.
See, there's another reason why I'm really against public job and antag bans. First of all these can be weaponized in arguments. I can see a lot of "Well you got banned from x job so that means your opinion is invalid" type of thing. On top of antag bans being able to be metaed. I just overall don't like that information being readily available for non admins, and to me that should apply to all bans including Perma server bans. Overall it irks me
If I actually caught anybody doing something as trivial and petty as what you've said in both posts here (I haven't) I'd actively consider very politely telling them to mind their own damn business, get off their high-horse and ban them for an hour.

I don't care if it's in an ahelp or ooc or whatever. That's just some real toxic entitled attitude that's welcome to walk right back out of whatever door it came in through and doesn't do anything to make the community any better in the slightest. They themselves are exuding problematic behavior.

Is this a problem with the system of being able to see the bans, or a problem with people using it as a means to act like douche canoes?

I've said it before in a number of cases but I'd rather be excising tumors than be amputating limbs.
Hugs
User avatar
Cobby
Code Maintainer
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
Github Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Cobby » #654212

Who is genuinely going to lookup someones ckey to see if they have say traitor banned in dynamic? Sure if you know there is one traitor and it has to be X or Y then it might narrow it down but thats no different than me seeing old Athena Hunt on any job as not sec.

The only thing that should have request role bans are team antags, and those replace the individual with someone who will be said antag so its not like youre gleaming some sort of information that doesnt manifest itself in other ways. You're better off reading into the fact that someone who is AFK is probably a nonantag.

I would indulge the "used to bully someone" boogeyman but no one ever brings up an actual case of it happening despite plenty of people being perma banned from the game but still able to engage on other platforms with tg players, even ones not owned by tg.

On the flip side though what example of this being public is going to be beneficial? If someone is rolebanned from engineering on vg but can still play vg the only thing I get from that is either they should have been actually banned or it's something I can ignore. We should instead post all bans a player has once they are permabanned to show how they ate a perma, that would be more beneficial than random perma rolebans for people we still allow to play on our servers.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
User avatar
Archie700
In-Game Admin
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:56 am
Byond Username: Archie700

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Archie700 » #654238

There's also the fact that every individual player behaviour is not set in concrete to begin with.

Perma Jobbans being public would in theory help in preventing jobban evasion through HoP job change, but it does require that we know his ckey.
User avatar
Cobby
Code Maintainer
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
Github Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Cobby » #654253

Its absurd to think people are going to be minimodding hop line to ensure people arent getting a jobchange to something they are banned from just as its absurd to expect people are going to check it everytime they suspect someone of anything to see if they have specific antags banned.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
User avatar
sinfulbliss
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
Byond Username: SinfulBliss
Location: prisoner re-education chamber

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by sinfulbliss » #654356

Cobby wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:14 pm Who is genuinely going to lookup someones ckey to see if they have say traitor banned in dynamic? Sure if you know there is one traitor and it has to be X or Y then it might narrow it down but thats no different than me seeing old Athena Hunt on any job as not sec.
ATHENA HUNT. Miss this player. What a throwback.
Cobby wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:14 pmI would indulge the "used to bully someone" boogeyman but no one ever brings up an actual case of it happening despite plenty of people being perma banned from the game but still able to engage on other platforms with tg players, even ones not owned by tg.
I have seen this happen occasionally. Usually when the player is unpopular or deserving of the ban, people will say things like "good riddance" and other such stuff that can be kind of mean. I think it's pretty obvious why you wouldn't see examples here because this would require shaming not one but two players - one for being shit on and another for shitting on them. Plus people don't really save such things.
Spoiler:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Archie700
In-Game Admin
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:56 am
Byond Username: Archie700

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Archie700 » #654381

Being shamed for calling an asshole an asshole is a really weird take.
User avatar
sinfulbliss
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
Byond Username: SinfulBliss
Location: prisoner re-education chamber

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by sinfulbliss » #654389

Archie700 wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:06 am Being shamed for calling an asshole an asshole is a really weird take.
Being a dick is being a dick to be honest. If someone broke the rules and got banned, they got their punishment. There's no real need to start shitting on them publicly.
Spoiler:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Farquaar
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:20 am
Byond Username: Farquaar
Location: Delta Quadrant

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Farquaar » #654390

sinfulbliss wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:37 am If someone broke the rules and got banned, they got their punishment. There's no real need to start shitting on them publicly.
It dissuades people from breaking the rules via social pressure.
► Show Spoiler
User avatar
Itseasytosee2me
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:14 am
Byond Username: Rectification
Location: Space Station 13

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Itseasytosee2me » #654427

Perhaps be should brand a large Scarlet Letter A for adulterer asshole on people who are jobbanned for the whole station to see at a glance.
Better yet, we could add a Job Offender registry that sends an exact description of the job offender to everyone on the station's PDA in question whenever they enter.
It's the only way to keep our children safe
- Sincerely itseasytosee
See you later
User avatar
Cobby
Code Maintainer
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
Github Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Cobby » #654429

no one is looking it up though, we have people say "good riddance" about others long before public bans existed.

where is the discord reply > screenshot of their public ban. THAT would be both hilarious and something you can say "public bans caused this".

If you did something to warrant a permanent ban that isnt something like telling the AI to plasmaflood the bridge then it shouldnt come to a surprise people want you gone. Their feelings and their reaction to the fact you can no longer play are not exclusive to the existence of public bans.

(still think rolebans but you can still play the game is silly btw)
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
User avatar
Archie700
In-Game Admin
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:56 am
Byond Username: Archie700

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Archie700 » #654435

Cobby wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:37 pm no one is looking it up though, we have people say "good riddance" about others long before public bans existed.

where is the discord reply > screenshot of their public ban. THAT would be both hilarious and something you can say "public bans caused this".

If you did something to warrant a permanent ban that isnt something like telling the AI to plasmaflood the bridge then it shouldnt come to a surprise people want you gone. Their feelings and their reaction to the fact you can no longer play are not exclusive to the existence of public bans.

(still think rolebans but you can still play the game is silly btw)
ALLOW ME TO TELL A TALE, THE STORY OF CACOGEN
User avatar
tattle
In-Game Head Admin
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:04 pm
Byond Username: Dragomagol

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by tattle » #654486

I'm not strongly against this, and based on what's happened with other public bans I don't think it'll be a super dramatic change even if it is implemented, I'm just not sold on it.
san7890 wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 6:47 pm Player Transparency. While other servers resent making logs and several other forms of administrative action public, /tg/ seems to have always prioritized sharing as much information as reasonably possible (without leaking personal information you would not want publicly accessible, like CIDs and IP addresses).
I don't think it would be a detriment by default, but I'm not really sure what the benefit is of sharing this information with the average player, besides satisfying curiosity.
san7890 wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 6:47 pm Policy Failures and Successes: While admins are easily able to look through all the notes and bans and find "problem parts" in our current policy- players are only restricted to knowing what happens at the absolute highest level of punishment (without relevant appeal). Having this information more broadly accessible (with accompanying reason for the ban, and the problematic behavior that required the ban) does provide benefit in that more minds are able to gather this information and apply it in future discussion.
If this is a problem with players being permabanned from a role, why does this benefit policy? I feel like perma role bans (that aren't requested) are a problem with the player more than the policy itself. If a player is getting a permanent role ban because of the policy, that policy should be addressed long before it reaches the point of disallowing them from playing roles permanently.
san7890 wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 6:47 pm Role Ban Frequency: Role bans are not trivial when it comes to routine administrative action. They are regularly applied when necessary. There's nothing trivial about the nature of a role ban either, it is indeed a ban.
I don't understand what this point is arguing. Is it that it's an equal severity with permanent server bans?
Help improve my neural network by giving me feedback!

Image
Spoiler:
Image
Avatar source
User avatar
Cobby
Code Maintainer
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
Github Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Cobby » #654528

Archie700 wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:41 pm
Cobby wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:37 pm no one is looking it up though, we have people say "good riddance" about others long before public bans existed.

where is the discord reply > screenshot of their public ban. THAT would be both hilarious and something you can say "public bans caused this".

If you did something to warrant a permanent ban that isnt something like telling the AI to plasmaflood the bridge then it shouldnt come to a surprise people want you gone. Their feelings and their reaction to the fact you can no longer play are not exclusive to the existence of public bans.

(still think rolebans but you can still play the game is silly btw)
ALLOW ME TO TELL A TALE, THE STORY OF CACOGEN
did you otherwise not know about this gem prior to checking out public bans "for fun"? regardless it made me lol.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
User avatar
san7890
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:12 pm
Byond Username: San7890
Github Username: san7890
Location: here
Contact:

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by san7890 » #654538

dragomagol wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 5:36 am I don't think it would be a detriment by default, but I'm not really sure what the benefit is of sharing this information with the average player, besides satisfying curiosity.
I don't see it as just a way to sate curiosity. People regularly make references to ongoing ban appeals as well as ban appeals in time present, and even public-permanent server bans (as well as bans that people have disclosed of their own accord in public channels). I've seen arguments where people collate several aspects of the ban information they have available to them, but their line of reasoning tends to be stifled from the fact that they only have access to a limited resource of information.

Minor digression: This kind of relates to why admins and players might not ever see eye-to-eye on very specific issues. An admin can check TGDB Notes/Bans whenever they wish in order to drag up certain notes and collate them into a huge argument spanning specific language (I'm thinking of that town hall regarding "final warnings"), while pulling several fundamental concepts across a wide library of information. I don't know if making permanent role bans available will necessarily create better arguments- but those who are determined enough to seek change without ever having a chance of ascending the INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS tower can certainly try their best if they're able to simply view more facts. Maybe some things are permanently fundamentally incompatible, but more people reading the same thing might reach similar conclusions (or at least provide the same level footing-ground for arguments and agreeances to be made).
If this is a problem with players being permabanned from a role, why does this benefit policy? I feel like perma role bans (that aren't requested) are a problem with the player more than the policy itself. If a player is getting a permanent role ban because of the policy, that policy should be addressed long before it reaches the point of disallowing them from playing roles permanently.
It's less about the specific policy and how it applies to that specific player, and more about how that ban applies to the server at-large since the server at-large is knowledgable about the specific case law (rulings) in several aspects beyond the (relatively) slim amount of appeals recieved. There was an idea floated in this thread that it would be more feasible to publish a note history leading up to a permanent role ban to be helpful in this aspect of "addressing it long before" and communicating that to the community, but I don't think that's feasible at this time.
I don't understand what this point is arguing. Is it that it's an equal severity with permanent server bans?
Apologies if this point wasn't clear, but it was more meant to tie in with the concept that it's similar to a permanent server ban because irregardless of what the player may wish for- they are not getting that ban taken off without an appeal and making that public for all to read. There is no waiting out a permanent ban: role or server.
Simultaneously making both the best and worst jokes on the internet. I like looking at maps and code. Learn how to map today!. You may rate me here.
User avatar
Archie700
In-Game Admin
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:56 am
Byond Username: Archie700

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Archie700 » #654560

Cobby wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:35 pm
Archie700 wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:41 pm
Cobby wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:37 pm no one is looking it up though, we have people say "good riddance" about others long before public bans existed.

where is the discord reply > screenshot of their public ban. THAT would be both hilarious and something you can say "public bans caused this".

If you did something to warrant a permanent ban that isnt something like telling the AI to plasmaflood the bridge then it shouldnt come to a surprise people want you gone. Their feelings and their reaction to the fact you can no longer play are not exclusive to the existence of public bans.

(still think rolebans but you can still play the game is silly btw)
ALLOW ME TO TELL A TALE, THE STORY OF CACOGEN
did you otherwise not know about this gem prior to checking out public bans "for fun"? regardless it made me lol.
Literally never even heard of it before finding it on public bans, there wasn't even a ban appeal
Feasel
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:20 pm
Byond Username: Riastlin

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Feasel » #654793

sinfulbliss wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:54 am It is extremely useful and will be annoying to put out of one’s mind if you learn about it, particularly if you’re playing sec. Suppose you have a selection of two prints on an emagged cap’s office and are wondering which of them did it, but recall one is antag banned. The good-faith player is now put in a weird spot. Now you sort of have to search them anyway, perhaps even first, in the interest of not metagaming, knowing you will find nothing.

SS13 antag gameplay is only fun because players know anyone around them could be evil. If they know someone is antag banned they have weird meta information and that shouldn’t be intruding IC.

On the topic of requested bans - I don’t think this appreciates that some players want it to be private and simply won’t request a ban if everyone and their mom will know about it. It can be embarrassing, and I’m not convinced the educational affect of knowing “hey, certain players aren’t enjoying the game!” is worth exposing a player’s private business to their peers.

As someone who requested a few months ban, although I was public about it on Discord, I would expect people to request less bans if it’s made public. Which is actually a bad thing - players usually only request these when they really feel they need them. I guess it’s sort of a privilege people don’t need to have, but any benefit gained from the public knowing X player asked for a permaban (very hard to think of any) is outweighed by the negative effect on the player actually requesting the ban.
Then you'd ban the person whose abusing that level of metaknowledge. Good grief. It's not freaking hard...

I ignore a ton of meta info until it properly crosses my eyes ingame. I investigate both players as befitting of proper standard. Just why.
User avatar
sinfulbliss
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
Byond Username: SinfulBliss
Location: prisoner re-education chamber

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by sinfulbliss » #654815

Feasel wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:27 am Then you'd ban the person whose abusing that level of metaknowledge. Good grief. It's not freaking hard...

I ignore a ton of meta info until it properly crosses my eyes ingame. I investigate both players as befitting of proper standard. Just why.
When you have to go out of your way to do this, it disrupts organic gameplay. I want to be just as miffed as to who is evil OOCly as I am ICly, and metaknowledge breaks that.
Spoiler:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
CMDR_Gungnir
Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 11:11 am
Byond Username: CMDR Gungnir

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by CMDR_Gungnir » #654825

sinfulbliss wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:42 am
Feasel wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:27 am Then you'd ban the person whose abusing that level of metaknowledge. Good grief. It's not freaking hard...

I ignore a ton of meta info until it properly crosses my eyes ingame. I investigate both players as befitting of proper standard. Just why.
When you have to go out of your way to do this, it disrupts organic gameplay. I want to be just as miffed as to who is evil OOCly as I am ICly, and metaknowledge breaks that.
Then don't go reading them.
User avatar
Agux909
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:26 pm
Byond Username: Agux909
Location: My own head

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Agux909 » #654843

sinfulbliss wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:42 am
Feasel wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:27 am Then you'd ban the person whose abusing that level of metaknowledge. Good grief. It's not freaking hard...

I ignore a ton of meta info until it properly crosses my eyes ingame. I investigate both players as befitting of proper standard. Just why.
When you have to go out of your way to do this, it disrupts organic gameplay. I want to be just as miffed as to who is evil OOCly as I am ICly, and metaknowledge breaks that.
Not really, that's the gist of roleplaying. You're "acting". Imagine you're an actor in a movie and because you did a future scene beforehand you know someone you don't suspect at all of being the villain ends up betraying you. It's like telling the director "Man, I can't play this scene and act like he's my friend anymore cause I know he's a traitor and will betray me". Imagine how silly that would be.
Image

Image

Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Cobby
Code Maintainer
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
Github Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Cobby » #654846

It's unrealistic to expect admins to be catch metagaming unless the user is being blatant, just as its unrealistic to expect people to ckey search every player to check if they have role bans for non-team roles.

Again, what purpose does this serve? Public bans are used to prevent other servers from getting trolled on by a bad faith actor, the system loses value when theres noninformative information tied in with the important stuff. If you, the tg admins, dont care enough to ban the guy from the game, why does VG or fulp need to know hes banned from engineering?

I could see someone preemptively banning a permabanned user via the public ban system, I cant see someone preemptively rolebanning.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
User avatar
iamgoofball
Github User
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:50 pm
Byond Username: Iamgoofball
Github Username: Iamgoofball

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by iamgoofball » #654901

Cobby wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:16 pm It's unrealistic to expect admins to be catch metagaming unless the user is being blatant, just as its unrealistic to expect people to ckey search every player to check if they have role bans for non-team roles.

Again, what purpose does this serve? Public bans are used to prevent other servers from getting trolled on by a bad faith actor, the system loses value when theres noninformative information tied in with the important stuff. If you, the tg admins, dont care enough to ban the guy from the game, why does VG or fulp need to know hes banned from engineering?

I could see someone preemptively banning a permabanned user via the public ban system, I cant see someone preemptively rolebanning.
if i crack open centcom on a new player who just joined as HoS named Dipshit McMurderCop and see that he's secbanned from goon, /tg/, fulp, skyrat, yog, paradise, and lifeweb, chances are we should probably keep a microscope on his sec gameplay
User avatar
Nabski
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:42 pm
Byond Username: Nabski
Github Username: Nabski89
Location: TN

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Nabski » #654941

iamgoofball wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 7:59 pm
Cobby wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:16 pm It's unrealistic to expect admins to be catch metagaming unless the user is being blatant, just as its unrealistic to expect people to ckey search every player to check if they have role bans for non-team roles.

Again, what purpose does this serve? Public bans are used to prevent other servers from getting trolled on by a bad faith actor, the system loses value when theres noninformative information tied in with the important stuff. If you, the tg admins, dont care enough to ban the guy from the game, why does VG or fulp need to know hes banned from engineering?

I could see someone preemptively banning a permabanned user via the public ban system, I cant see someone preemptively rolebanning.
if i crack open centcom on a new player who just joined as HoS named Dipshit McMurderCop and see that he's secbanned from goon, /tg/, fulp, skyrat, yog, paradise, and lifeweb, chances are we should probably keep a microscope on his sec gameplay
It's a good thing heads of staff have hour requirements so this scenario will never happen.
User avatar
iamgoofball
Github User
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:50 pm
Byond Username: Iamgoofball
Github Username: Iamgoofball

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by iamgoofball » #654990

Nabski wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 11:23 pm
iamgoofball wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 7:59 pm
Cobby wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:16 pm It's unrealistic to expect admins to be catch metagaming unless the user is being blatant, just as its unrealistic to expect people to ckey search every player to check if they have role bans for non-team roles.

Again, what purpose does this serve? Public bans are used to prevent other servers from getting trolled on by a bad faith actor, the system loses value when theres noninformative information tied in with the important stuff. If you, the tg admins, dont care enough to ban the guy from the game, why does VG or fulp need to know hes banned from engineering?

I could see someone preemptively banning a permabanned user via the public ban system, I cant see someone preemptively rolebanning.
if i crack open centcom on a new player who just joined as HoS named Dipshit McMurderCop and see that he's secbanned from goon, /tg/, fulp, skyrat, yog, paradise, and lifeweb, chances are we should probably keep a microscope on his sec gameplay
It's a good thing heads of staff have hour requirements so this scenario will never happen.
hour requirements are a config, not every server has them enabled, try reading my post again a bit more closely this time before you go "but we have them enabled"
User avatar
Nabski
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:42 pm
Byond Username: Nabski
Github Username: Nabski89
Location: TN

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Nabski » #654997

I just assumed that putting /tg/ on this list was your brain worms in action since these are the /tg/ policy forums. I see that I was wrong.
User avatar
Cobby
Code Maintainer
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
Github Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone

Re: Make All Permanent Role Bans Public

Post by Cobby » #655014

iamgoofball wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 7:59 pm if i crack open centcom on a new player who just joined as HoS named Dipshit McMurderCop and see that he's secbanned from goon, /tg/, fulp, skyrat, yog, paradise, and lifeweb, chances are we should probably keep a microscope on his sec gameplay
but not too hard because he can play the game just fine on all those servers presumably since he is just sec banned. Thats not considering if they have any differences between security mechanics/space law between the servers that I am not familiar with, which would further make me assume I shouldnt give him anymore special attention than John "In Space" Wayne who is a fresh account. That would be a lot different if Mr. McMurderCop was actually banned from the server due to being such a poor player and I WOULD find that extremely helpful.

The idea youre actually going to be checking centcom on people randomly is still a strange concept for me.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users