Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Locked
serxule
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:58 am
Byond Username: Serxule

Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by serxule » #655189

edit: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/70908

Disposals trapping (making a 2x2 loop with a chute going into it) is being heavily abused lately and should absolutely be noteable and bannable (repeated offences) if done by a non-antag regardless of the reasoning (because guess what, antags dont want to be instantly round removed by a disposals chute)
reasons why i think this: (no, i did not make a powerpoint presentation)

1. Its basically a round removal unless you get freed, which isnt very likely, and if you're a known antag (wizard, nukies, heretic), you'll just be killed upon being freed.
2. Its barely any different than having an instagib gun (yes you can be saved after being hit with instagib gun, head transplant)
3. It ruins the round of anyone whose affected, especially since you have no idea how long getting freed will take
4. It would fall under Rule 1 Precedents.

The reason why im not adding antags to this list, is that antags are basically rule free as it is, and this would end up confusing.

disposals traps hidden in airlocks to fuck over nukies (note, i did not end up in one of these, i was a ghost)
----------------------------------------
Image
nukie killed by crew after being freed
Image
admin spawned in a saboborg to save them
Last edited by serxule on Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Misdoubtful
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:03 pm
Byond Username: Misdoubtful
Location: Delivering hugs!

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by Misdoubtful » #655190

The very idea of someone doing this during something this during like a nukes ops round is so awful for the health of the round that it would take basically nothing for me to intervene in it.

At that point it isn't even about a persons round in particular, its about making the round suck in general.

Also not really related but it might be interesting if a mechanic existed where trying to move in disposals would damage and then later break them after so many CLANGS and the floor tiling too idk.
Hugs
serxule
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:58 am
Byond Username: Serxule

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by serxule » #655193

Misdoubtful wrote: Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:24 am Also not really related but it might be interesting if a mechanic existed where trying to move in disposals would damage and then later break them after so many CLANGS and the floor tiling too idk.
yeah this is an idea i had, would def help if someone wanted to bother coding it, but people usually dont so i just went with the ruling path
User avatar
Scriptis
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:05 am
Byond Username: Scriptis

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by Scriptis » #655202

Disclaimer: I built the trap in the second image, and reinforced the trap in the first.

While I broadly agree that nonantagonists should not be building disposals loops, things change during a nuclear emergency. If war has been declared, the crew is called upon and expected to fortify the station. In this case, disposals traps on exterior airlocks are an excellent choice.
1. Its basically a round removal unless you get freed, which isnt very likely, and if you're a known antag (wizard, nukies, heretic), you'll just be killed upon being freed.
Yes, and nuclear operatives are valid for round removal, per rule 4.
2. Its barely any different than having an instagib gun (yes you can be saved after being hit with instagib gun, head transplant)
Elances and maxcaps also exist; the only difference here is that you have the option of recovering a crewmember that didn't get the memo.

The alternative to a disposals loop currently is a proximity-activated grenade trap, which would render a crewmember gibbed (and irrecoverable). The disposals trap offers a quick and easy out for this.
3. It ruins the round of anyone whose affected, especially since you have no idea how long getting freed will take
If you're a nuclear operative and you get dunked on, this is an issue of skill. You have five hundred TCs' worth of equipment, and you got destroyed by a lead pipe. Open a window next time instead, like the rest of us already do.

If you're a crewmember and you didn't get the memo, you should be screaming on comms. If the person who set up the trap isn't saving your arse (and isn't dead), then it's already an administrative issue with current policy, and you should ahelp.
4. It would fall under Rule 1 Precedents.
Again, in a nuclear emergency,

Code: Select all

4. [...] Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists as per lone antagonists.
If you feel that disposals loops are an issue as-is, we should just make it possible to resist out of a disposals pipe. Then we can finally get back to the correct way of booby-trapping airlocks--landmines for the curator to gib himself with.
Image
Spoiler:
Image

Image

Image
User avatar
san7890
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:12 pm
Byond Username: San7890
Github Username: san7890
Location: here
Contact:

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by san7890 » #655203

Is there a sudden uptick in this lately, or did something just crop up in the water? I know we have this ban appeal for making disposals traps (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32658), but it appears that the ban itself was placed in June of this year.
Simultaneously making both the best and worst jokes on the internet. I like looking at maps and code. Learn how to map today!. You may rate me here.
serxule
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:58 am
Byond Username: Serxule

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by serxule » #655207

san7890 wrote: Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:09 am Is there a sudden uptick in this lately, or did something just crop up in the water?
yeah, its been being done every round or every other round on high-pop sybil, wasnt much of a problem before because it was uncommon
User avatar
Pandarsenic
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
Byond Username: Pandarsenic
Location: AI Upload

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by Pandarsenic » #655209

If this is happening in 1/3 or more of rounds, it probably is a matter of "fine in moderation (especially if war ops) but don't wear it out with overuse"
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
User avatar
Not-Dorsidarf
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm
Byond Username: Dorsidwarf
Location: We're all going on an, admin holiday

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by Not-Dorsidarf » #655212

There's a PR up that allows people who have been in a disposals trap long enough to come to a halt to smash their way out, hulk style
Image
Image
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please. 🖕🖕🖕
User avatar
Misdoubtful
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:03 pm
Byond Username: Misdoubtful
Location: Delivering hugs!

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by Misdoubtful » #655221

I'm not really interested in the bullet points on this one, or the details or semantics.

I just ask myself if it would be fun and how much it would develop things when a rounds antags are stuck in purgatory doing nothing and always come to the same conclusion of eventually helping them get out somehow.

Maybe I'm finally just out of touch but this sort of thing just feels like Anti-Gameplay and I certainly don't see it on other servers.

It just rubs me the wrong way and I don't see it resulting in much in the way of storytelling, just winning.
Hugs
User avatar
Scriptis
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:05 am
Byond Username: Scriptis

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by Scriptis » #655276

Misdoubtful wrote: Sun Oct 30, 2022 12:43 pm ...

It just rubs me the wrong way and I don't see it resulting in much in the way of storytelling, just winning.
Reposted from Discord:

Consider the following: LRP war operatives do not allow for any sort of interesting roleplaying, the declaration of war is a giant OFF switch for anything RP-related, and seeing that announcement on LRP immediately transitions everyone to an "I need to win this" state of mind.

Now consider the following: disable war operatives on LRP because it sucks
Image
Spoiler:
Image

Image

Image
User avatar
Misdoubtful
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:03 pm
Byond Username: Misdoubtful
Location: Delivering hugs!

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by Misdoubtful » #655277

Scriptis wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:40 am
Misdoubtful wrote: Sun Oct 30, 2022 12:43 pm ...

It just rubs me the wrong way and I don't see it resulting in much in the way of storytelling, just winning.
Reposted from Discord:

Consider the following: LRP war operatives do not allow for any sort of interesting roleplaying, the declaration of war is a giant OFF switch for anything RP-related, and seeing that announcement on LRP immediately transitions everyone to an "I need to win this" state of mind.

Now consider the following: disable war operatives on LRP because it sucks
TY for reposting this.

I wasn't really looking at this in terms of roleplay. I firmly look at roleplay and storytelling as being two separate things that can at times work together. Someone can tell or create an interesting story without having to roleplay to do so.
Hugs
User avatar
TheFinalPotato
Code Maintainer
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:58 am
Byond Username: LemonInTheDark

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by TheFinalPotato » #655285

dying to a rocket launcher is roleplaying. you people are the worst
My ancestors are smiling at me, Imperials. Can you say the same?
Image
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Shadowflame909
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:18 pm
Byond Username: Shadowflame909
Location: Think about something witty and pretend I put it here

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by Shadowflame909 » #655289

Admins should warn war ops about them. Agree with misdoubtful
► Show Spoiler
cybersaber101
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:30 am
Byond Username: Cybersaber101
Location: Canada, eh?

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by cybersaber101 » #655291

The Operative should have tc traded to gib whoever built the trap. Although in seriousness using a GBJ is turbo boring especially since being an operative isn't something most players try often, any admin who catches this should consider if it's worth freeing the poor antag. Do I think it should be bannable/noteable? if they overdo it then of course but not for a errant disposals trap.
The same poster, over and over and over and over and over and-
User avatar
Farquaar
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:20 am
Byond Username: Farquaar
Location: Delta Quadrant

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by Farquaar » #655295

Seems like a code issue
► Show Spoiler
User avatar
Cobby
Code Maintainer
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
Github Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by Cobby » #655319

If you get stuck in a disposals loop you’re banking on people “reviving” you just as much as a grenade killing you. It might be easier generally speaking but while In the loop you might as well be dead.

The loops should be fine but you should be responsible for them including people getting trapped while fighting. If you don’t save them then better hope someone else does or enjoy the break. Since they stay active even after you die this would also include when you couldn’t be able to save them (ie you were killed).

If you aren’t comfortable w that risk then don’t build traps that are inescapable without outside help and person-agnostic. Being intended for an antag but it hitting innocents doesn’t make it perfectly ok in other scenarios.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
User avatar
Ziiro
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:12 pm
Byond Username: Ziiro
Github Username: Ziiro
Location: Robotics
Contact:

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by Ziiro » #655614

Farquaar wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 5:51 am Seems like a code issue
User avatar
Cobby
Code Maintainer
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
Github Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by Cobby » #655633

the mechanic might be a code/balance issue, but knowingly creating gay baby jail traps without regard to other players as nonantag is certainly an admin one.

we may as well remove N2O and rcd's if it wasnt, Theyre just as easy to escape (walking away / clicking 1 button).
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
Googles_Hands
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:25 am
Byond Username: Googles_Hands

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by Googles_Hands » #655917

Am I missing something or are you seriously trying to make it be against the rules to make a trap that is openly visible, visually distinct and can just NOT be walked into?

People have eyes, no one is forcing them to walk into it, Just find a different way of approach, take down a wall, go through maint or space OR just take it apart.
It is the definition of a skill issue, learn and adapt.
cybersaber101
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:30 am
Byond Username: Cybersaber101
Location: Canada, eh?

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by cybersaber101 » #655918

Googles_Hands wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:05 am Am I missing something or are you seriously trying to make it be against the rules to make a trap that is openly visible, visually distinct and can just NOT be walked into?

People have eyes, no one is forcing them to walk into it, Just find a different way of approach, take down a wall, go through maint or space OR just take it apart.
It is the definition of a skill issue, learn and adapt.
LUL
The same poster, over and over and over and over and over and-
User avatar
Misdoubtful
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:03 pm
Byond Username: Misdoubtful
Location: Delivering hugs!

Re: Make disposals trapping noteable/bannable

Post by Misdoubtful » #670512

In short:

We agree that admins are encouraged to intervene and interact in the best interests of the round if an instance of this is creating an issue that players can not reasonably or easily solve both IC and OOC.
Hugs
Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users