/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:02 am**

edit: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/70908

Disposals trapping (making a 2x2 loop with a chute going into it) is being heavily abused lately and should absolutely be noteable and bannable (repeated offences) if done by a non-antag regardless of the reasoning (because guess what, antags dont want to be instantly round removed by a disposals chute)
reasons why i think this: (no, i did not make a powerpoint presentation)

1. Its basically a round removal unless you get freed, which isnt very likely, and if you're a known antag (wizard, nukies, heretic), you'll just be killed upon being freed.
2. Its barely any different than having an instagib gun (yes you can be saved after being hit with instagib gun, head transplant)
3. It ruins the round of anyone whose affected, especially since you have no idea how long getting freed will take
4. It would fall under Rule 1 Precedents.

The reason why im not adding antags to this list, is that antags are basically rule free as it is, and this would end up confusing.

disposals traps hidden in airlocks to fuck over nukies (note, i did not end up in one of these, i was a ghost)
----------------------------------------

nukie killed by crew after being freed

admin spawned in a saboborg to save them

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:24 am**

The very idea of someone doing this during something this during like a nukes ops round is so awful for the health of the round that it would take basically nothing for me to intervene in it.

At that point it isn't even about a persons round in particular, its about making the round suck in general.

Also not really related but it might be interesting if a mechanic existed where trying to move in disposals would damage and then later break them after so many CLANGS and the floor tiling too idk.

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:38 am**

Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:24 am Also not really related but it might be interesting if a mechanic existed where trying to move in disposals would damage and then later break them after so many CLANGS and the floor tiling too idk.

yeah this is an idea i had, would def help if someone wanted to bother coding it, but people usually dont so i just went with the ruling path

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2022 7:44 am**

Disclaimer: I built the trap in the second image, and reinforced the trap in the first.

While I broadly agree that nonantagonists should not be building disposals loops, things change during a nuclear emergency. If war has been declared, the crew is called upon and expected to fortify the station. In this case, disposals traps on exterior airlocks are an excellent choice.

1. Its basically a round removal unless you get freed, which isnt very likely, and if you're a known antag (wizard, nukies, heretic), you'll just be killed upon being freed.

Yes, and nuclear operatives are valid for round removal, per rule 4.

2. Its barely any different than having an instagib gun (yes you can be saved after being hit with instagib gun, head transplant)

Elances and maxcaps also exist; the only difference here is that you have the option of recovering a crewmember that didn't get the memo.

The alternative to a disposals loop currently is a proximity-activated grenade trap, which would render a crewmember gibbed (and irrecoverable). The disposals trap offers a quick and easy out for this.

3. It ruins the round of anyone whose affected, especially since you have no idea how long getting freed will take

If you're a nuclear operative and you get dunked on, this is an issue of skill. You have five hundred TCs' worth of equipment, and you got destroyed by a lead pipe. Open a window next time instead, like the rest of us already do.

If you're a crewmember and you didn't get the memo, you should be screaming on comms. If the person who set up the trap isn't saving your arse (and isn't dead), then it's already an administrative issue with current policy, and you should ahelp.

4. It would fall under Rule 1 Precedents.

Again, in a nuclear emergency,

Code: Select all

4. [...] Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists as per lone antagonists.

If you feel that disposals loops are an issue as-is, we should just make it possible to resist out of a disposals pipe. Then we can finally get back to the correct way of booby-trapping airlocks--landmines for the curator to gib himself with.

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:09 am**

Is there a sudden uptick in this lately, or did something just crop up in the water? I know we have this ban appeal for making disposals traps (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32658), but it appears that the ban itself was placed in June of this year.

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:45 am**

san7890 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:09 am Is there a sudden uptick in this lately, or did something just crop up in the water?

yeah, its been being done every round or every other round on high-pop sybil, wasnt much of a problem before because it was uncommon

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2022 9:08 am**

If this is happening in 1/3 or more of rounds, it probably is a matter of "fine in moderation (especially if war ops) but don't wear it out with overuse"

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2022 12:03 pm**

There's a PR up that allows people who have been in a disposals trap long enough to come to a halt to smash their way out, hulk style

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2022 12:43 pm**

I'm not really interested in the bullet points on this one, or the details or semantics.

I just ask myself if it would be fun and how much it would develop things when a rounds antags are stuck in purgatory doing nothing and always come to the same conclusion of eventually helping them get out somehow.

Maybe I'm finally just out of touch but this sort of thing just feels like Anti-Gameplay and I certainly don't see it on other servers.

It just rubs me the wrong way and I don't see it resulting in much in the way of storytelling, just winning.

Posted: **Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:40 am**

Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 12:43 pm ...

It just rubs me the wrong way and I don't see it resulting in much in the way of storytelling, just winning.

Reposted from Discord:

Consider the following: LRP war operatives do not allow for any sort of interesting roleplaying, the declaration of war is a giant OFF switch for anything RP-related, and seeing that announcement on LRP immediately transitions everyone to an "I need to win this" state of mind.

Now consider the following: disable war operatives on LRP because it sucks

Posted: **Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:48 am**

Scriptis wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:40 am
Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 12:43 pm ...

It just rubs me the wrong way and I don't see it resulting in much in the way of storytelling, just winning.
Reposted from Discord:

Consider the following: LRP war operatives do not allow for any sort of interesting roleplaying, the declaration of war is a giant OFF switch for anything RP-related, and seeing that announcement on LRP immediately transitions everyone to an "I need to win this" state of mind.

Now consider the following: disable war operatives on LRP because it sucks

TY for reposting this.

I wasn't really looking at this in terms of roleplay. I firmly look at roleplay and storytelling as being two separate things that can at times work together. Someone can tell or create an interesting story without having to roleplay to do so.

Posted: **Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:14 am**

dying to a rocket launcher is roleplaying. you people are the worst

Posted: **Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:54 am**

Admins should warn war ops about them. Agree with misdoubtful

Posted: **Mon Oct 31, 2022 5:31 am**

The Operative should have tc traded to gib whoever built the trap. Although in seriousness using a GBJ is turbo boring especially since being an operative isn't something most players try often, any admin who catches this should consider if it's worth freeing the poor antag. Do I think it should be bannable/noteable? if they overdo it then of course but not for a errant disposals trap.

Posted: **Mon Oct 31, 2022 5:51 am**

Seems like a code issue

Posted: **Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:17 pm**

If you get stuck in a disposals loop you’re banking on people “reviving” you just as much as a grenade killing you. It might be easier generally speaking but while In the loop you might as well be dead.

The loops should be fine but you should be responsible for them including people getting trapped while fighting. If you don’t save them then better hope someone else does or enjoy the break. Since they stay active even after you die this would also include when you couldn’t be able to save them (ie you were killed).

If you aren’t comfortable w that risk then don’t build traps that are inescapable without outside help and person-agnostic. Being intended for an antag but it hitting innocents doesn’t make it perfectly ok in other scenarios.

Posted: **Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:19 pm**

Farquaar wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 5:51 am Seems like a code issue

Posted: **Thu Nov 03, 2022 11:43 pm**

the mechanic might be a code/balance issue, but knowingly creating gay baby jail traps without regard to other players as nonantag is certainly an admin one.

we may as well remove N2O and rcd's if it wasnt, Theyre just as easy to escape (walking away / clicking 1 button).

Posted: **Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:05 am**

Am I missing something or are you seriously trying to make it be against the rules to make a trap that is openly visible, visually distinct and can just NOT be walked into?

People have eyes, no one is forcing them to walk into it, Just find a different way of approach, take down a wall, go through maint or space OR just take it apart.
It is the definition of a skill issue, learn and adapt.

Posted: **Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:37 am**

Googles_Hands wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:05 am Am I missing something or are you seriously trying to make it be against the rules to make a trap that is openly visible, visually distinct and can just NOT be walked into?

People have eyes, no one is forcing them to walk into it, Just find a different way of approach, take down a wall, go through maint or space OR just take it apart.
It is the definition of a skill issue, learn and adapt.

LUL

Posted: **Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:44 pm**

In short:

We agree that admins are encouraged to intervene and interact in the best interests of the round if an instance of this is creating an issue that players can not reasonably or easily solve both IC and OOC.

/tg/Station 13

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