increase the duration of time needed to get roundstart team antags (cult, revs, ops) by a massive amount

[saprasam]

being a team antagonist at roundstart requires you to have good game knowledge, skill and etc to begin the snowball
the issue with this comes when a new player decides that picking cult is a good idea.
for all intents and purposes, this is a wasted slot & the new player will have no idea what the fuck they're doing when they're thrust with the expectations of a cultist, and either 1. get caught and throw, or 2. do nothing and throw

example: mime with 5 hours gets roundstart cult, other cultist dies (ME. THIS IS ENTIRELY MADEOUT OF PURE GAMER RAGE. GRAHHHHHHHHHH) due to bad luck and the mime is left to carry the entire cult when he has no idea what he's doing, it takes him 30 minutes just to understand how to use spirit realm.

i have no problems with new players getting CONVERTED, as they aren't expected to carry as much as the roundstart cult and by now the snowball should have begun, but roundstart antags require more skill & knowledge then a new player can ever hope to have

[sinfulbliss]

Hard disagree for headrev or ops. New players need to start somewhere, you were new once too and probably died instantly as a nukie your first time playing as well. Only way they can learn is by doing really. Headrev is very straightforward, you need very little playtime to know how to click someone with a flash.

For cult it hurts a bit more since cult needs teamwork in order to convert anyone at all, but honestly even here it's hard to justify gatekeeping the role since all they need to do is get dragged around by someone who knows how to play cult and watch things. Getting thrown into an antag role with all these bells and whistles and not having a clue what you're doing is a necessary experience in order to get better at them and also, is actually the reason a lot of new players probably get interested in SS13 and keep playing it. They wanna learn what all those things do.

[blackdav123]

agree with sinful anyone's first cult round is going to consist of them standing around like an NPC and the only thing that might ever change that would be a code change simplifying cult

i still fuck up sometimes and absolutely blunder giving away the whole cult and we just work around it

[saprasam]

Hard disagree for headrev or ops. New players need to start somewhere, you were new once too and probably died instantly as a nukie your first time playing as well. Only way they can learn is by doing really. Headrev is very straightforward, you need very little playtime to know how to click someone with a flash.

For cult it hurts a bit more since cult needs teamwork in order to convert anyone at all, but honestly even here it's hard to justify gatekeeping the role since all they need to do is get dragged around by someone who knows how to play cult and watch things. Getting thrown into an antag role with all these bells and whistles and not having a clue what you're doing is a necessary experience in order to get better at them and also, is actually the reason a lot of new players probably get interested in SS13 and keep playing it. They wanna learn what all those things do.

definitely right on ops & revs as those aren't really hard team antags
with cult however having a cult round where a new/inexperienced player gets cult roundstart ends up being a disaster a ton of the time
dont get me wrong it is a necessary learning experience but you need to learn how to play cult through being converted instead of roundstart, as there is significantly more pressure (and WAY less people who are willing to teach you) to be perfect at cult if you're a roundstart cultie

[Misdoubtful]

I would rather not see team antags locked to people 'good enough to ensure that they will win' in a scenario where game skill would now matter more than roleplay and playing the game itself.

Sometimes you lose, sometimes that will be the story of the round, sometimes that is okay, sometimes it is an opportunity to teach people that don't play roles that can already sometimes be pretty rare for people to get to play.

I REALLY do not like the idea of promoting carrying/snowballing attitudes and behaviors.

If a role is too hard for people to pick up in some sort of intuitive manner, that might just be a code related concern.

MAYBE, MAYBE, just team leader antags could be considered for this sort of proposal as a solution as well.

[Farquaar]

I think it's fine. It's good to introduce players to the concept of playing a team antag early on.

[SkeletalElite]

I don't think it will help the problem. The only way to learn is to dive into it and give it a go. You could require 100 hours to play cult and people still wouldn't know what to do because they've only ever done it as a convert when the foundations to win have already been laid by others.

[Pandarsenic]

Would it be possible to code it so you can only get First Revolutionary/Cultist after a certain number of times being converted?

[Nabski]

Add flukies, which is the exact same as nuke ops but everyone has been a nuke op less than three times.

[saprasam]

Add flukies, which is the exact same as nuke ops but everyone has been a nuke op less than three times.

this is a funny compromise and i’m all for it

Would it be possible to code it so you can only get First Revolutionary/Cultist after a certain number of times being converted?

probably but i’m unsure of if anybody would like to code it

[Epicgamer545]

I don’t think the time for antag should change. Everyone has their first moments and it’s important to embrace them instead of shoving them away. How would you do it otherwise if you were discouraged?

MAYBE, MAYBE, just team leader antags could be considered for this sort of proposal as a solution as well.

Also, on another note… Can we perhaps get a separate antag pref for leader nuke ops? One time I got leader with no warning and it was also my third or second time on ops.

[bastardblaster]

incompetent teammates and leaders are part of the fun

[san7890]

Small pop-in to say that this isn't a configuration that we are currently able to set on the servers, code-side changes would be required (and would have to be okay'd by maintainers).

[Ziiro]

Add flukies, which is the exact same as nuke ops but everyone has been a nuke op less than three times.

Newkies

[spookuni]

We're not interested in raising hour requirements for team antags. Players need to play the antags to learn them, new players messing up with team antags is frankly funny, and we have no desire to treat the ability to achieve a competitive win-condition as the primary decider of whom gets to play what antag.

We would be interested in the implementation of Hug's proposal for a separate timegate for team leaders that pushes for them to have a bit more minimum experience, but that's a code change that is outside of our ability to influence.

Spook: No change
Rave: No change
San: No change
Hugs: No change