/tg/Station 13

On Lrp the instant gib rifle often leads to mass murder. Instead of having having to fear that you'll catch a ban for using it as intended (mass murder). Holding the instant gib rifle should grant you antagonist status as long as you have it in your possession.

A TTV is intended for mass murder therefor it should give you antagonist status to hold it?

I mean, I get where you're coming from with the whole xmas thing, but then its a slippery slope to every other stupid thing from the tree being valid. But your logic about "intended purpose" doesn't really make a lot of sense.

I get what you mean but a TTV can be made be made by anyone who reads the wiki and goes to sci, there is no rarity or seasonality to a TTV. A better example is that the die of fate can turn someone willingly into a wizard, this is fine because the die of fate is rare & there is a low chance of getting a 20. Having a 1/1000 chance per round of getting a instant kill rifle from your single present is much more like a die of fate than a TTV.

Indeed, its more that it came from the rare tree. But a lot of stuff does. I don't think its a good line to set, plenty of people wont have a clue whats going on when this happens and will assume its a general free for all with all xmas tree guns. Special snowflake policy.

( Edit: That said, someone run the numbers on how many times this possibly happens over a month. Also maybe just make it a code thing, then you can have the person get bigger and red and be obviously 'special' and given some antag datum, rather than just a policy thing. That said, you still have to sell people on the idea and idk that its actually a good idea in any way )

I got an insta kill rifle from a tree a few days ago. Very rare regardless

I believe the tree can give you any item that is a subtype obj/item.
There are 5 variants of the insta kill rifle and thousands of subtypes of obj/item

SkeletalElite wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:17 am I got an insta kill rifle from a tree a few days ago. Very rare regardless

I believe the tree can give you any item that is a subtype obj/item.
There are 5 variants of the insta kill rifle and thousands of subtypes of obj/item

Just a small correction, there are 6 variants of the instakill rifle, 5 of which delete on drop.

SkeletalElite wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:17 am I got an insta kill rifle from a tree a few days ago. Very rare regardless

I believe the tree can give you any item that is a subtype obj/item.
There are 5 variants of the insta kill rifle and thousands of subtypes of obj/item

I'm pretty sure you can't get certain debug items.

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:52 pm

SkeletalElite wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:17 am I got an insta kill rifle from a tree a few days ago. Very rare regardless

I believe the tree can give you any item that is a subtype obj/item.
There are 5 variants of the insta kill rifle and thousands of subtypes of obj/item

I'm pretty sure you can't get certain debug items.

Unless said debug items aren't subtypes of obj/item, that doesn't seem to be the case.
I've seen people with the admin modsuit before too, which has 100 armor in all stats

We don't need more arbitrary licenses to kill being handed out. All I see resulting from this is more lol random murder sprees, where someone happens to get an instagib rifle and murder everyone in the most cheap way possible. This would only result in more bitching on everyone's part and more work for the admins when shitty ahelps are sent in and they have to investigate until they figure out that the murderspree guy had an instagib rifle.

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:28 pm We don't need more arbitrary licenses to kill being handed out. All I see resulting from this is more lol random murder sprees, where someone happens to get an instagib rifle and murder everyone in the most cheap way possible. This would only result in more bitching on everyone's part and more work for the admins when shitty ahelps are sent in and they have to investigate until they figure out that the murderspree guy had an instagib rifle.

The existence of this item is a headache for admins already though. Applying a policy around this extremely rare seasonal item would solve a lot of that headache.

HeyHey wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:49 am The existence of this item is a headache for admins already though. Applying a policy around this extremely rare seasonal item would solve a lot of that headache.

The headache and tears would only be exacerbated by people getting in shovingmatches for the antag stick.

This would be funny, make it so

HeyHey wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:26 am On Lrp the instant gib rifle often leads to mass murder. Instead of having having to fear that you'll catch a ban for using it as intended (mass murder).

no item is ever a license to kill unless you were already an antag, if someone decided to murder people with an instagib rifle as nonantag then thats (likely) a ban.

I +1 this. It should be like the green text. You lose antag status upon dropping it.

HeyHey wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:26 am On Lrp the instant gib rifle often leads to mass murder. Instead of having having to fear that you'll catch a ban for using it as intended (mass murder). Holding the instant gib rifle should grant you antagonist status as long as you have it in your possession.

But why exactly?

I agree that this is a problem because whether it is an instakill weapon for a christmas present or just something moderately powerful from an admin event, it usually creates a Chekhov's gun scenario where the crew has the weapon and instinctively wants to use it. The crew ends up fighting over who gets it, as the original owner just wants it because it is theirs and security often wants to confiscate/destroy it. Inevitably the weapon will eventually be used by a nonantag to kill an innocent (source: any round with a supermatter sword present).

This leaves us with two paths to cure this headache of a scenario, either remove these kinds of items from player's hands or give the players the right to use them.

Personally, I think giving the holder a brainwash-like objective to "protect the item at any cost!" would be best to still prevent murderboning with le epic gib rifle but also allow them to defend the item if sec is trying to steal it.

Agux909 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:00 pm

HeyHey wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:26 am On Lrp the instant gib rifle often leads to mass murder. Instead of having having to fear that you'll catch a ban for using it as intended (mass murder). Holding the instant gib rifle should grant you antagonist status as long as you have it in your possession.

But why exactly?

It exists and any time it spawns there's a non zero chance of the round turning into an administrative headache due to its use.

serxule wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:34 am

HeyHey wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:26 am On Lrp the instant gib rifle often leads to mass murder. Instead of having having to fear that you'll catch a ban for using it as intended (mass murder).

no item is ever a license to kill unless you were already an antag, if someone decided to murder people with an instagib rifle as nonantag then thats (likely) a ban.

But in practice it is used and at least recently did not result in a ban.

HeyHey wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:56 pm
But in practice it is used and at least recently did not result in a ban.

then either:
A. they were an antag
B. no admins were on
C. no one ahelped
D. both B and C

HeyHey wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:55 pm

Agux909 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:00 pm

HeyHey wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:26 am On Lrp the instant gib rifle often leads to mass murder. Instead of having having to fear that you'll catch a ban for using it as intended (mass murder). Holding the instant gib rifle should grant you antagonist status as long as you have it in your possession.

But why exactly?

It exists and any time it spawns there's a non zero chance of the round turning into an administrative headache due to its use.

And you don't think that an antag token being juggled around on and off is going to give the same or even worse administrative headaches?

Also, you're suggesting that a whole new rule or rule exception is put in place for an item that's only gonna be obtainable temporarily. It's kinda silly.

rule 0 already exists and I've seen it used on non-antag instagib rifle murderbones twice. I don't think anyone actually got a ban for it.

serxule wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:00 pm

HeyHey wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:56 pm
But in practice it is used and at least recently did not result in a ban.

then either:
A. they were an antag
B. no admins were on
C. no one ahelped
D. both B and C

Wrong

Agux909 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:56 pm

HeyHey wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:55 pm

Agux909 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:00 pm

HeyHey wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:26 am On Lrp the instant gib rifle often leads to mass murder. Instead of having having to fear that you'll catch a ban for using it as intended (mass murder). Holding the instant gib rifle should grant you antagonist status as long as you have it in your possession.

But why exactly?

It exists and any time it spawns there's a non zero chance of the round turning into an administrative headache due to its use.

And you don't think that an antag token being juggled around on and off is going to give the same or even worse administrative headaches?

Also, you're suggesting that a whole new rule or rule exception is put in place for an item that's only gonna be obtainable temporarily. It's kinda silly.

I’m suggesting treating it like when a miner gambles their life and gets wizard. In that case the wizard IS an antagonist and doesn’t have to spend the round gimped but when someone gets the instant kill rifle they are hamstrung against using it. Another example of the grey zone here is romerol via Christmas tree. Yesterday someone got it, asked who wanted to be sprayed and consensually caused a zombie outbreak. Even with admins on they escaped punishment.

HeyHey wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:39 pm
I’m suggesting treating it like when a miner gambles their life and gets wizard.

miner is a bad example, as the slot machine you can just keep using the slot machine, get cryo to fix cell damage, repeat

HeyHey wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:49 am The existence of this item is a headache for admins already though. Applying a policy around this extremely rare seasonal item would solve a lot of that headache.

The headache is only happening because they're spawning the tree/santa. The present tree is only naturally spawned between the 23rd and 27th, ditto for the santa event.

Striders13 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:17 am rule 0 already exists and I've seen it used on non-antag instagib rifle murderbones twice. I don't think anyone actually got a ban for it.

Multiple people in the past have gotten banned for mass murder (>3 kills) with an instagib rifle on Christmas.

Double-posting to share my own opinion: Dumb idea. Will just massively derail the round even more than it already does. Doesn't let anyone else enjoy their presents and results in everyone rushing down one guy for free antag.

mrmelbert wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:23 am Double-posting to share my own opinion: Dumb idea. Will just massively derail the round even more than it already does. Doesn't let anyone else enjoy their presents and results in everyone rushing down one guy for free antag.

What if all of them deleted upon drop rather then just a few of them

Drop your I win gun and the threat is gone

Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:14 am What if all of them deleted upon drop rather then just a few of them

Drop your I win gun and the threat is gone

At that point you're either A. Suggesting a code change (One I don't necessarily agree with, why would we "balance" something over the Christmas tree. Also this is policy discussion)
or B. Suggesting an admin adds DROPDEL to it when they notice one's spawned, which at that point would be covered under Rule 0

If you get the Instagib Rifle just ahelp and ask for permission and (probably) get the Rule 0 protection because the admin said you could.

If someone tries to steal your instagib rifle you should definitely be allowed to shoot them with it.

License to kill? Eh. There is tons of other Instant kill stuff too. It's destined to be a mess if it's allowed in any shape or form.

But when it comes to presents as mentioned in this thread earlier: Don't be a damn Grinch, be happy playing with your own damn presents.

That being said I've never really batted an eye when someone tries to steal your weapon of mass destruction Christmas present or tries to kill you for having it and gets blasted. Obviously that's just me though and not everyone. So you're bound to be running blind with this unless you ahelp.

None of us are interested in going through with this policy change in any way. Just because you got a cool present doesn't mean that you must use (or be otherwise punished for pulling the gift unexpectedly under Rule 4). It's not a very logical conclusion to reach given the context of the game and implementing this would rely on a stipulation only found buried somewhere in the rules.