/tg/Station 13

Came around this new healing technique and want to know if its an exploit or not if it is then it should be code fixed but their dosent seem to be any issues about it it works by monkifying people which changes every cell in their body healing both brute and burn and also fixing organs but does not change chemicals within restore blood or heal toxin damage it seems pretty balanced so I don't think it is but I'm not sure

It's not exactly convenient to monkey then unmonkey someone so I figure it's fine unless it becomes so prevalent that it's disruptive to normal medical play.

If you are min-maxing healing and stealing job content from doctors (assuming you are a geneticist while doing this) without asking that's absolutely a rule 12 issue. The question is: Is this an intended game mechanic or not? I don't think an offshoot of an aheal is intended. So yes, exploit.

Edit: Also turning people into monkeys without consent can be seen as antagonistic, so that also toes into rule 1 since you're forcefully converting people's species.

monkeyification shouldn't be healing people

iamgoofball wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:32 am monkeyification shouldn't be healing people

Why not? It makes sense from a lore perspective, seeing as your entire cellular makeup is being changed.

Drag wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:16 am If you are min-maxing healing and stealing job content from doctors (assuming you are a geneticist while doing this) without asking that's absolutely a rule 12 issue. The question is: Is this an intended game mechanic or not? I don't think an offshoot of an aheal is intended. So yes, exploit.

Edit: Also turning people into monkeys without consent can be seen as antagonistic, so that also toes into rule 1 since you're forcefully converting people's species.

Yeah let me clarify, I don't care if doctors think it's funny to heal people this way as long as they're prepared for the consequences. If you're anyone else healing people other than yourself this way, why are you like this?

(If you're healing yourself this way you are probably powergaming out of your goddamn gourd and need to be slapped)

Maybe you should utilize our githubs issue tracker instead of trying to appeal to policy, whose opinion means nothing on the matter.

This happens with any species change. It is most definitely an exploit, without a doubt.

A better question is what qualifies as an actionable exploit over just an oversight that confers a benefit. Keep in mind tactical resting, which everyone used to dodge projectiles, was actually an oversight and wasn't intended, but became part of the game all the same.

If it doesn't harm anyone and isn't used to "get past" some coded limitation/nerf, it's hard to see why it would be something worth considering an actionable exploit (ling MMI check is very different from something like this).

Keep in mind tactical resting, which everyone used to dodge projectiles, was actually an oversight and wasn't intended, but became part of the game all the same.

we removed the ability for people to spam rest to dodge projectiles mid-combat because that was an exploit

set_species() doing a full heal is quite literally not intended behavior, and admins should ban people for using monkeyhumanizing to heal people

iamgoofball wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:22 pm

Keep in mind tactical resting, which everyone used to dodge projectiles, was actually an oversight and wasn't intended, but became part of the game all the same.

we removed the ability for people to spam rest to dodge projectiles mid-combat because that was an exploit

set_species() doing a full heal is quite literally not intended behavior, and admins should ban people for using monkeyhumanizing to heal people

In that case admins should've banned the entire playerbase for resting to dodge projectiles back when the feature bug existed (over 2 years I think). I don't see your rationale here.

People abusing monkefication to heal is absolutely hilarious. I'm imagining an assistant running a "natural healing" service or something and you just walk in, lay down, and get turned into a monkey. And maybe turned back. I motion for headmins to ignore this thread until it is eventually patched!

Code issue.

Fairly certain this is a side effect from the fact that we re-create every limb when species changes, sending all damage to the void, which is definitely an oversight

Drag wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:16 am If you are min-maxing healing and stealing job content from doctors (assuming you are a geneticist while doing this) without asking that's absolutely a rule 12 issue. The question is: Is this an intended game mechanic or not? I don't think an offshoot of an aheal is intended. So yes, exploit.

Edit: Also turning people into monkeys without consent can be seen as antagonistic, so that also toes into rule 1 since you're forcefully converting people's species.

How is healing people with monkeys/stealing job content from doctors "Play-to-win gameplay"?

vect0r wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:26 pm

Drag wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:16 am If you are min-maxing healing and stealing job content from doctors (assuming you are a geneticist while doing this) without asking that's absolutely a rule 12 issue. The question is: Is this an intended game mechanic or not? I don't think an offshoot of an aheal is intended. So yes, exploit.

Edit: Also turning people into monkeys without consent can be seen as antagonistic, so that also toes into rule 1 since you're forcefully converting people's species.

How is healing people with monkeys/stealing job content from doctors "Play-to-win gameplay"?

Yeah what. This seems like a very odd attempt at imposing the MRP “stay-in-your-lane” ruleset onto LRP servers through rule 12. Which definitely isn’t what it’s for.

mrmelbert wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:54 pm Fairly certain this is a side effect from the fact that we re-create every limb when species changes, sending all damage to the void, which is definitely an oversight

This is true. In fact if you for instance, use the miner’s cursed katana repeatedly, wounding your arms until they fall off, your damage will rapidly increase until the point the limb pops off, at which point the damage from it goes away (since you don’t have an arm to be damaged).

mrmelbert wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:54 pm Fairly certain this is a side effect from the fact that we re-create every limb when species changes, sending all damage to the void, which is definitely an oversight

yeah you need to transfer old damage over

Armhulen wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:50 pm

mrmelbert wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:54 pm Fairly certain this is a side effect from the fact that we re-create every limb when species changes, sending all damage to the void, which is definitely an oversight

yeah you need to transfer old damage over

This is not trivial when the new species doesn't have the same organs.

CPTANT wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:42 pm
This is not trivial when the new species doesn't have the same organs.

Well there's already code to transfer organ damage over. In fact if it's not working that's straight up a bug.

As for bodyparts, that's trivially easy. Arm to arm, leg to leg. There's just nothing for that.
I think this arose as a consequence of the refactor that made all species limbs their own subtypes but I'm not confident in that and don't want egg on my face if I'm wrong.

This is a soulful bug that could only exist from the unethical future of science.

Should be kept but have a 50% chance of doubling whatever damage you had prior (that's what you get for messing with a side effect of wacky science of course!)

Also want to add this has become a part of the changeling meta since it also wipes your stamina damage, 10000000x better use of chemicals to counter stam combat than using that weird adrenaline that doesnt do anything. (atleast from what ive seen)

Its funny watching someone baton a human and then that human spam morphs into a monkey and back sometimes getting a hit off in between transformations.

It's still dumb by the way that the way to go to kill changelings is with stuns instead of lethals. Adrenaline sacks were unnecessarily nerfed when everything was moved to stamina.

If this heals 3rd degree burns then don't touch it, because healing third degree burns is buggy as fuck, and basically never works with the intended flesh debriding + ointment surgery

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:18 pm If this heals 3rd degree burns then don't touch it, because healing third degree burns is buggy as fuck, and basically never works with the intended flesh debriding + ointment surgery

The only way that works ive found is either alot of miner`s salve or pyroxadone/cryoxadone. (aside from species changing)

code issue why is this in policy discussion

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:41 pm code issue why is this in policy discussion

It's relevant to the discussion. If there's something broken in the game that doesn't work, in this case fixing 3rd degree burns, but it can be fixed by using an unintended method like monkifying and de-mutating someone, should the policy really be to bwoink and ban people for using the unintended method that actually works?

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:41 pm code issue why is this in policy discussion

It's a good question to have here because it's a question of "Am I allowed to do this, or will doing this get me banned?"

it is very clearly an exploit. but medical is no stranger to exploits. as long as you’re not using it constantly and just ruining the game for everyone I don’t see why it’s actionable. report the issue on github and then move on. if the chance arises to show someone the cool trick ingame then sure go for it. put fire under coders to actually fix it if they’re not fixing it. just make sure it never gets to the point where rule 12 has to be invoked.

kieth4:

As with all other bugs, you're free to use it- AT YOUR OWN RISK don't be surprised if admins decide it's unhealthy and tell you to stop.

Misdoubtful:

This is a code issue, do it at your own risk

Timber:

1.Code issue.

2. Don't go out of your way to ruin other players' job mechanics by optimising the fun out of their department unless requested by them.