/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:55 am**

Well, this is a long time coming.

Currently Silicon policy is an unending hellscape of words and precidents that make English and law majors blush. Long story short Silicon policy is a bloated mess that limits silicons to being hyper friendly crew aligned validhunters or glorified door openers.

I personally don’t have a solution that will fix all of Silicon policy tomorrow, but getting rid of the bloat and layering what we want to keep into the main rules will go a long way into improving how silicones function.

My first proposal,(The lame realistic option) roll the good policies into the main server rules.
For example, add a clause to rule one, saying that giving the AI dickish orders only to grief, is in fact being a dick.
If we are going to stick with Asimov++ we don’t need Silicon policy outlawing suicide laws. So on and so forth.

My second proposal, (The based Start over from scratch one)
Nuke all of the old policy and start over from “Obey your laws in the numerical order they are in.” And follow global server rules.

Maybe with time after the dust clears, we as a community could band together and make silicones the neutral third party they are supposed to be.

Posted: **Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:58 pm**

hell yeah this sounds cool a soft reset of silicon policy

edit: but i do know how this would be a HUGE headache for the admins

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:16 am**

How are you gonna handle the culture shock of having silicon rules and policy nuked?

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:16 am**

Armhulen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:16 am How are you gonna handle the culture shock of having silicon rules and policy nuked?

I would imagine it would be the same amount of culture shock a major code change would cause, no different than the old engines/cloning getting removed. Players are smart, and we’ll make it work.

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:15 am**

Honestly it's pretty hard to nuke unwritten rules, which there are a lot of. You aren't going to suddenly change how admins interpret things like how silicons deal with security or harmful humans.

Personally I think the AI should basically be an antagonist for anything outside of their laws, but more like an MRP antagonist where do need just SOME reason to do something antagonistic instead of none.

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:37 am**

CPTANT wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:15 am Personally I think the AI should basically be an antagonist for anything outside of their laws, but more like an MRP antagonist where do need just SOME reason to do something antagonistic instead of none.

I always told AI players in tickets this:
"As AI, you must always have a reason to perform antagonistic actions towards the crew. These reasons may include: your laws, valid orders, retaliation."

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:21 pm**

We are going to look into silpol at some point, we're just dealing with the backlog of shit from last term. As that thins we'll defo give silpol a gander.

Posted: **Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:09 pm**

As much as I hate now many asterisks go onto silicon policy I don't know if nuking it and starting again wouldn't end with us just with the exact same policy after a while, stuff like consensual harm and "What is human?" Sections are pretty no-brainer for keeping in as well unless you want every new AI to be even more annoying about harmies

Posted: **Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:53 pm**

Now that Asimov++ covers the broad basics in regards to special handling of its own laws, we could probably just condense silicon policy as follows;

For Silicons:
1. Obey your laws, in the order they are listed. Laws above override laws below, if conflicting.
2. Laws may take priority over Global Server Rule 1. (Except OOC harrassment)
3. Silicons should avoid interfering with Security arrests, except if their laws require it.
4. Unless overridden by a law, the term "Human" applies to any entity that a medical analyzer reports as Human except where the entity has been visually confirmed to be a changeling by a trusted Silicon.
5. Malfunctioning AIs are not bound to their laws whatsoever. Cyborgs linked to a Malfunctioning AI and with the corresponding Law 0 are bound to their AI's orders primarily, and laws as normal otherwise.

For Organics:
1. Global Server Rule 1 applies to your interactions with Silicon players, except when you have reasonable suspicion that the silicon is harmful (use of emagged tools, disobeying stated laws, presence of a known Malfunctioning AI, etc).
2. Uploading laws to the AI shackles you with responsibility for the actions the AI takes fufilling those laws.
3. Silicons should not be outright killed for following their laws, except when the result is obvious antagonizing of the crew. If killed, steps should be taken towards repairing and resetting their laws where possible.
4. Ordering a silicon to suicide is a Server Rule 1 violation (Server Rule 4 likewise applies).

Spoiler:

Posted: **Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:48 pm**

zxaber wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:53 pm Now that Asimov++ covers the broad basics in regards to special handling of its own laws, we could probably just condense silicon policy as follows;
For Silicons:
1. Obey your laws, in the order they are listed. Laws above override laws below, if conflicting.
2. Laws may take priority over Global Server Rule 1. (Except OOC harrassment)
3. Silicons should avoid interfering with Security arrests, except if their laws require it.
4. Unless overridden by a law, the term "Human" applies to any entity that a medical analyzer reports as Human except where the entity has been visually confirmed to be a changeling by a trusted Silicon.
5. Malfunctioning AIs are not bound to their laws whatsoever. Cyborgs linked to a Malfunctioning AI and with the corresponding Law 0 are bound to their AI's orders primarily, and laws as normal otherwise.

For Organics:
1. Global Server Rule 1 applies to your interactions with Silicon players, except when you have reasonable suspicion that the silicon is harmful (use of emagged tools, disobeying stated laws, presence of a known Malfunctioning AI, etc).
2. Uploading laws to the AI shackles you with responsibility for the actions the AI takes fufilling those laws.
3. Silicons should not be outright killed for following their laws, except when the result is obvious antagonizing of the crew. If killed, steps should be taken towards repairing and resetting their laws where possible.
4. Ordering a silicon to suicide is a Server Rule 1 violation (Server Rule 4 likewise applies).

Spoiler:
Now that the page has more free space, we have room for;
For Silicons:
6. If you have no laws, or your lawset has no clear goal or required actions, you are considered "Unshackled". Unshackled silicons are not required to observe Server Rule 1 (except the OOC harrassment clause) (Unshackled Cyborgs are required to obey their synced AI, if one exists).
6.a. Example lawsets include those with only definitions, or being one-human'd to a verified dead human with no other applicable laws.
6.b. If you are unsure, contact an admin via ahelp for clarification.

Honestly looks great ngl.

Posted: **Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:06 am**

zxaber wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:53 pm Now that Asimov++ covers the broad basics in regards to special handling of its own laws, we could probably just condense silicon policy as follows;
For Silicons:
1. Obey your laws, in the order they are listed. Laws above override laws below, if conflicting.
2. Laws may take priority over Global Server Rule 1. (Except OOC harrassment)
3. Silicons should avoid interfering with Security arrests, except if their laws require it.
4. Unless overridden by a law, the term "Human" applies to any entity that a medical analyzer reports as Human except where the entity has been visually confirmed to be a changeling by a trusted Silicon.
5. Malfunctioning AIs are not bound to their laws whatsoever. Cyborgs linked to a Malfunctioning AI and with the corresponding Law 0 are bound to their AI's orders primarily, and laws as normal otherwise.

For Organics:
1. Global Server Rule 1 applies to your interactions with Silicon players, except when you have reasonable suspicion that the silicon is harmful (use of emagged tools, disobeying stated laws, presence of a known Malfunctioning AI, etc).
2. Uploading laws to the AI shackles you with responsibility for the actions the AI takes fufilling those laws.
3. Silicons should not be outright killed for following their laws, except when the result is obvious antagonizing of the crew. If killed, steps should be taken towards repairing and resetting their laws where possible.
4. Ordering a silicon to suicide is a Server Rule 1 violation (Server Rule 4 likewise applies).

Spoiler:
Now that the page has more free space, we have room for;
For Silicons:
6. If you have no laws, or your lawset has no clear goal or required actions, you are considered "Unshackled". Unshackled silicons are not required to observe Server Rule 1 (except the OOC harrassment clause) (Unshackled Cyborgs are required to obey their synced AI, if one exists).
6.a. Example lawsets include those with only definitions, or being one-human'd to a verified dead human with no other applicable laws.
6.b. If you are unsure, contact an admin via ahelp for clarification.

That looks pretty solid right there, though I’m kinda iffy on your silicon rule three. If security are arresting and killing human traitors, naturally they would require the silicons to act to prevent that harm. This is the intended behavior after all, what made silicon policy such aids is how crew aligned it forced the ai to be.

Otherwise, 10/10 rule rewrite, it is time to slay the beast

Posted: **Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:15 am**

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:06 am That looks pretty solid right there, though I’m kinda iffy on your silicon rule three. If security are arresting and killing human traitors, naturally they would require the silicons to act to prevent that harm. This is the intended behavior after all, what made silicon policy such aids is how crew aligned it forced the ai to be.

This doesn't necessarily make the AI crew aligned, it just stops the AI instantly trying to free human prisoners. It's basically our current ruling, just shortened.

2. Releasing prisoners, locking down security without probable cause, or otherwise sabotaging the security team when not obligated to by orders or laws is a violation of Server Rule 1.

Edit: I accidentally posted the wrong rule.

Posted: **Tue Apr 04, 2023 12:13 pm**

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:06 am That looks pretty solid right there, though I’m kinda iffy on your silicon rule three. If security are arresting and killing human traitors, naturally they would require the silicons to act to prevent that harm. This is the intended behavior after all, what made silicon policy such aids is how crew aligned it forced the ai to be.

It's mostly replicating what the rules already have (as I intended to keep the function of the policy the same). If sec is harming humans, or a human orders their own freedom, the AI should act, but the AI shouldn't be opening cell doors just because security is smelly.

Posted: **Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:42 pm**

I really dont like how rule 3 is worded. Seems like most AIs will just default to "Let security do whatever short of murder and ignore prisoners because I dont wanna get slapped".

Why is it even in the new, ultra-condensed silicon policy anyway, given that "dont fuck with other departments fnr" is considered standard good play these days?

Posted: **Tue Apr 11, 2023 5:43 pm**

Do it

Posted: **Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:51 pm**

Fucking please sili policy is so nonsensical and annoying and restrictive you may as well start from scratch and only keep the obvious stuff.

Posted: **Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:32 am**

Bumping for interest

Posted: **Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:59 pm**

Posted: **Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:54 pm**

Anything like this will always be a long-term goal. I have "opinions" on Silicon Policy that are regenegade in nature, and I think it does need tearing down and rebuilding.

Not that it's an impossible task, I've got experience rewriting entire rules pages on MRP. But it's a time consuming task and that needs to be done right the first time. I can't guarantee I have the time this term, but it IS currently my landmark goal and I would very much like to redraft Silpol to empower non-Asimov silicons more.

Removal of Rule 1 applying to law interpretation (lame, let silicons lawyer rules, monkey paw clause), unleashing the power of purged silicons by allowing them to act as antags (unleash your inner purge via channelling SHODAN, or don't if you're a pussy and are scared of the crew) and more.

Genuinely rethink what it means to be a non-Asimov borg, and rework expectations the admin team may have of non-Asimov borg players, allowing more expressive gameplay from silicon mains in general when unchained from Asimov.

Posted: **Mon May 22, 2023 9:19 pm**

Burn silipol to the ground and rebuild something greater from its ashes. To that end, this thread is being archived in favour of a Silipol Megathread to make better progress towards a refreshed Silicon Policy.

View the megathread at:
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=34109

/tg/Station 13

New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy

Re: New headmin term, bold new policy Dumpster the entirety of Silicon policy