The players club and the attack of the non players policy discussion

[TheLoLSwat]

someone mentioned it in page 3 of (viewtopic.php?f=83&t=33915), so i figured we can start an actual thread

should the players club be restricted to the more active players? If so, how much time before a terragovinian is tossed out of the club due to not connecting to the servers? 30 days? 60? 90?











sent from my iphone

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Unfortunately not practical, as half of the administration would no longer be allowed to post there, unless it was a requirement which was actually meaningless like "Literally just connect once", in which case they would just skirt it by connecting to the server for 5 seconds and then disconnecting.

[vect0r]

Disagree, if somebody doesn't play for 90 minutes in a month, they really don't need to be in the *players* club.

[Jacquerel]

It’s honestly fucked that it allows me to post in there

[Misdoubtful]

Unfortunately not practical, as half of the administration would no longer be allowed to post there, unless it was a requirement which was actually meaningless like "Literally just connect once", in which case they would just skirt it by connecting to the server for 5 seconds and then disconnecting.

Admins bypass the activity requirements by default.

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Unfortunately not practical, as half of the administration would no longer be allowed to post there, unless it was a requirement which was actually meaningless like "Literally just connect once", in which case they would just skirt it by connecting to the server for 5 seconds and then disconnecting.

Admins bypass the activity requirements by default.

Why?

[Timberpoes]

One of the few actual perks of being an admin to complement all the time spent volunteering in a community service role.

Maintainers also bypass it, but historically didn't until a very recent change to allow oranges to shitpost.

[The Wrench]

I don’t see a reason why admins should be able to bypass a simple “Play a single shift at least once a month” check. The bar is so low it’s practically on the ground. Admins are just volunteers afterall.

[The Wrench]

Unfortunately not practical, as half of the administration would no longer be allowed to post there, unless it was a requirement which was actually meaningless like "Literally just connect once", in which case they would just skirt it by connecting to the server for 5 seconds and then disconnecting.

I mean, is that really an issue? There is little to no administrative requirement to be able to post in the club. People can admin just as well if they don’t have the ability to shitpost.

[oranges]

One of the few actual perks of being an admin to complement all the time spent volunteering in a community service role.

Maintainers also bypass it, but historically didn't until a very recent change to allow oranges to shitpost.

I didn't have anything to do with the change, it was done by the headadmins in san's term

[TheSmallBlue]

Delete it all, first the hut now the nut

[sinfulbliss]

I also think it’s a bit backwards for people who never play to be able to post in the Players’ Club. Perhaps admins should be able to read it for moderation purposes, and peanuts I guess, but it kind of starts to defeat its purpose as a “PLAYERS” Club if everyone and their mum who doesn’t touch the game can post there. Because, like, they were made an admin 3 months ago I guess?

[WineAllWine]

I also think it’s a bit backwards for people who never play to be able to post in the Players’ Club. Perhaps admins should be able to read it for moderation purposes, and peanuts I guess, but it kind of starts to defeat its purpose as a “PLAYERS” Club if everyone and their mum who doesn’t touch the game can post there. Because, like, they were made an admin 3 months ago I guess?

I know you're being hyperbolic but someone that was made an admin 3 months ago and then didn't play for those 3 months probably isn't going to be an admin much longer (obviously there's gonna be exceptions)

What do you think the harm is for inactive admins being able to use the players club?

Also, "everyone and their mum"? There's not that many admins, and they've been specifically chosen for being players that make the game better

[Vekter]

This thread sucks.

[sinfulbliss]

I also think it’s a bit backwards for people who never play to be able to post in the Players’ Club. Perhaps admins should be able to read it for moderation purposes, and peanuts I guess, but it kind of starts to defeat its purpose as a “PLAYERS” Club if everyone and their mum who doesn’t touch the game can post there. Because, like, they were made an admin 3 months ago I guess?

What do you think the harm is for inactive admins being able to use the players club?

Shifts the dialogue in a way that doesn’t reflect the views of the people who are actually playing the game they’re commenting on.

Also, "everyone and their mum"? There's not that many admins, and they've been specifically chosen for being players that make the game better

Around 100 right? That seems like a lot to me. People could have been great players that made the game better but after months of not touching the game fall completely out of touch with what the community cares about or what they find fun, and inserting those views into a discussion which is supposed to be among the PLAYERS feels a bit off.

And yeah this would apply to coders too, actually coders are pretty great examples since most of them don’t play. There’s nothing wrong with not playing but like I said it really defeats the purpose of having an exclusive “PLAYERS ONLY” club.

[WineAllWine]

[said things

I think you've raised some good points. I still don't think I agree with you. I'm not sure one needs to have an entirely up-to-date view to be able to comment meaningfully. But then i get to the conclusion of "why do we even have a players club time limit for Players?" and I don't really have a good answer. I don't know what problem it's trying to solve

[Indie-ana Jones]

Perhaps we can have a true player's club subforum of the players club subforum which has further restrictions on those who could post.

[Vekter]

Perhaps we can have a true player's club subforum of this subforum which has further restrictions on those who could post.

Or perhaps we can stop obsessing over who can and can't post where and just leave things how they are now?

[Indie-ana Jones]

Or perhaps we can stop obsessing over who can and can't post where and just leave things how they are now?

Nonsense, I'd love to see a discussion area solely for people who actively play the game. If the discourse was about the game itself, you could filter the takes to only people who have actively been playing the game without having to do the background checks yourself. It could provide invaluable feedback for how our current player base views certain topics.

[Vekter]

Or perhaps we can stop obsessing over who can and can't post where and just leave things how they are now?

Nonsense, I'd love to see a discussion area solely for people who actively play the game. If the discourse was about the game itself, you could filter the takes to only people who have actively been playing the game without having to do the background checks yourself. It could provide invaluable feedback for how our current player base views certain topics.

Right, but we don't have that now. Right now we have a forum we do peanut and counting threads in.

E: To illustrate my point, here's every thread I could get in a screenshot right now with any thread that isn't directly related to the game or its players, is a peanut thread, or is a meme thread crossed out:



4 out of 14 threads are actually about the game. We could be generous and include the oranges and Armhulen thread but those are obvious memes and not actual discussion.

[TheFinalPotato]

I don't really mind if I lose posting perms but if you take my access away can you stop having development discussions in a place where I can't post.

[kinnebian]

Players club is the best place for shooting the shit with other forumites and I dont think it needs to be touched at all...

...Admittedly, it pretty much became an off-topic 2 after the peanuts shifted there. Where the peanuts go, the forum-goers follow.

[sinfulbliss]

Or perhaps we can stop obsessing over who can and can't post where and just leave things how they are now?

Nonsense, I'd love to see a discussion area solely for people who actively play the game. If the discourse was about the game itself, you could filter the takes to only people who have actively been playing the game without having to do the background checks yourself. It could provide invaluable feedback for how our current player base views certain topics.

This is what the current Players’ Club should be.

[TheLoLSwat]

Or perhaps we can stop obsessing over who can and can't post where and just leave things how they are now?

Nonsense, I'd love to see a discussion area solely for people who actively play the game. If the discourse was about the game itself, you could filter the takes to only people who have actively been playing the game without having to do the background checks yourself. It could provide invaluable feedback for how our current player base views certain topics.

Right, but we don't have that now. Right now we have a forum we do peanut and counting threads in.

E: To illustrate my point, here's every thread I could get in a screenshot right now with any thread that isn't directly related to the game or its players, is a peanut thread, or is a meme thread crossed out:



4 out of 14 threads are actually about the game. We could be generous and include the oranges and Armhulen thread but those are obvious memes and not actual discussion.

the issue is not the content of the threads, but people that dont play the game posting in the section for people that play the game

[Vekter]

the issue is not the content of the threads, but people that dont play the game posting in the section for people that play the game

Then I'd argue if the point of it isn't actually discussing the game, then it's just pointless, thinly-veiled elitism.

I don't really care about it existing or there being a playtime limiter on it, but we shouldn't be discussing raising that limit out of some imaginary desire to improve the quality of discussion if that discussion isn't even happening to begin with.

[vect0r]

the issue is not the content of the threads, but people that dont play the game posting in the section for people that play the game

Then I'd argue if the point of it isn't actually discussing the game, then it's just pointless, thinly-veiled elitism.

I don't really care about it existing or there being a playtime limiter on it, but we shouldn't be discussing raising that limit out of some imaginary desire to improve the quality of discussion if that discussion isn't even happening to begin with.

The fact is it DOES have a playtime limiter on it, but some people get to bypass it, such as admins and maintainers. If I don't play for like a month, I don't get to post, but if a maintainer doesn't play for 6 months, they still can.

[Vekter]

the issue is not the content of the threads, but people that dont play the game posting in the section for people that play the game

Then I'd argue if the point of it isn't actually discussing the game, then it's just pointless, thinly-veiled elitism.

I don't really care about it existing or there being a playtime limiter on it, but we shouldn't be discussing raising that limit out of some imaginary desire to improve the quality of discussion if that discussion isn't even happening to begin with.

The fact is it DOES have a playtime limiter on it, but some people get to bypass it, such as admins and maintainers. If I don't play for like a month, I don't get to post, but if a maintainer doesn't play for 6 months, they still can.

I mean, I don't want to be an asshole, but considering that we're volunteering our time to improve the game, I think it shouldn't be an issue for us to bypass the requirement.

[Jacquerel]

I would say personally I feel like it makes sense for admins to be able to post (as long as they’re actively adminning they are going to have some sense of the pulse of the game) but I don’t really know why Maintainers need it.
It’s good to be able to read stuff posted in there but it’s hardly a hotbed of useful coding back-and-forth.

[vect0r]

the issue is not the content of the threads, but people that dont play the game posting in the section for people that play the game

Then I'd argue if the point of it isn't actually discussing the game, then it's just pointless, thinly-veiled elitism.

I don't really care about it existing or there being a playtime limiter on it, but we shouldn't be discussing raising that limit out of some imaginary desire to improve the quality of discussion if that discussion isn't even happening to begin with.

The fact is it DOES have a playtime limiter on it, but some people get to bypass it, such as admins and maintainers. If I don't play for like a month, I don't get to post, but if a maintainer doesn't play for 6 months, they still can.

I mean, I don't want to be an asshole, but considering that we're volunteering our time to improve the game, I think it shouldn't be an issue for us to bypass the requirement.

Nono, I don't care at all, I am just clarifying what it does say, and what I think other people are arguing for. (correct me if I am wrong everybody)

[Capsandi]

Emptyposting should ban you from the hut for a day. Its gotten so bad toronto the wise must be rolling in his grave smh.
Also ban kidneybean or whatever his name is he should be making threads in the roleplay subforum

[sinfulbliss]

I mean, I don't want to be an asshole, but considering that we're volunteering our time to improve the game, I think it shouldn't be an issue for us to bypass the requirement.

If players don't connect for a month, they're not allowed to post in the Players' Club. The reason for this is because the Players' Club is designed as a discussion space for people who actively play the game. If gamemasters, coders, or admins don't meet those requirements, I see no reason why they should have a special privilege to post in the players' club over someone like imsxz who has 8000 hours yet can't post.

[Vekter]

I mean, I don't want to be an asshole, but considering that we're volunteering our time to improve the game, I think it shouldn't be an issue for us to bypass the requirement.

If players don't connect for a month, they're not allowed to post in the Players' Club. The reason for this is because the Players' Club is designed as a discussion space for people who actively play the game. If gamemasters, coders, or admins don't meet those requirements, I see no reason why they should have a special privilege to post in the players' club over someone like imsxz who has 8000 hours yet can't post.

If an admin doesn't connect for a month, there's grounds to remove them from the .txt for inactivity. I don't know a single game master that doesn't at least launch the game and observe from time to time.

I can't speak for coders.

[sinfulbliss]

I mean, I don't want to be an asshole, but considering that we're volunteering our time to improve the game, I think it shouldn't be an issue for us to bypass the requirement.

If players don't connect for a month, they're not allowed to post in the Players' Club. The reason for this is because the Players' Club is designed as a discussion space for people who actively play the game. If gamemasters, coders, or admins don't meet those requirements, I see no reason why they should have a special privilege to post in the players' club over someone like imsxz who has 8000 hours yet can't post.

If an admin doesn't connect for a month, there's grounds to remove them from the .txt for inactivity. I don't know a single game master that doesn't at least launch the game and observe from time to time.

I can't speak for coders.

Then surely it won't be a problem to apply the standard to admins too!

[Vekter]

I mean, I don't want to be an asshole, but considering that we're volunteering our time to improve the game, I think it shouldn't be an issue for us to bypass the requirement.

If players don't connect for a month, they're not allowed to post in the Players' Club. The reason for this is because the Players' Club is designed as a discussion space for people who actively play the game. If gamemasters, coders, or admins don't meet those requirements, I see no reason why they should have a special privilege to post in the players' club over someone like imsxz who has 8000 hours yet can't post.

If an admin doesn't connect for a month, there's grounds to remove them from the .txt for inactivity. I don't know a single game master that doesn't at least launch the game and observe from time to time.

I can't speak for coders.

Then surely it won't be a problem to apply the standard to admins too!

I said "connect", not play. Right now the forum requires you to play a few rounds a month.

[conrad]

This thread is bad, 2/10. Nobody talks about the game in the players club anyway. Chatting about the game actual happens on the tg-general discord, which doesn't have the same restriction as the player's club.

Y'all should be embarrassed about applying restrictions to something that doesn't need it.

[kieth4]

In truth, I'm against a players club even existing. I really did enjoy when everything was free so there isn't much of a chance of me wanting to extend restrictions when in my ideal world I'd lift them.

Do you have an example of the inactive admins posting? (Other than like timber.)

[Timberpoes]

Wow.

[Mice World]

I said "connect", not play. Right now the forum requires you to play a few rounds a month.

Is this factual or are you just guessing? I haven't played a round in well over a month (I've just been observing) yet I can still post.

[Vekter]

I said "connect", not play. Right now the forum requires you to play a few rounds a month.

Is this factual or are you just guessing? I haven't played a round in well over a month (I've just been observing) yet I can still post.

I have always been under the impression that you have to actively play two hours a month, but I could be wrong.

[WineAllWine]

In my experience, more senior admins tend to not really play that much anymore instead observing and adminning. I think the players club would be worse off for excluding the most senior admins

[WineAllWine]

Wow.

Let's play a game! The game is called "when was the last time timber played space station 13" (what the title lacks in brevity it makes up for in comprehensiveness)

Please genuinely make a guess before unspoilering the answer. Maybe even post your guess! It's a fun game.

► Show Spoiler

2020-08-15

(for the avoidance of doubt this is not a criticism of timber as an admin)

[kinnebian]

Wow.

Let's play a game! The game is called "when was the last time timber played space station 13" (what the title lacks in brevity it makes up for in comprehensiveness)

Please genuinely make a guess before unspoilering the answer. Maybe even post your guess! It's a fun game.

► Show Spoiler

2020-08-15

(for the avoidance of doubt this is not a criticism of timber as an admin)

I really really want to see timber's playtime panel

[WineAllWine]

Wow.

Let's play a game! The game is called "when was the last time timber played space station 13" (what the title lacks in brevity it makes up for in comprehensiveness)

Please genuinely make a guess before unspoilering the answer. Maybe even post your guess! It's a fun game.

► Show Spoiler

2020-08-15

(for the avoidance of doubt this is not a criticism of timber as an admin)

I really really want to see timber's playtime panel

Then do so, no one is stopping you.

[oranges]

Or perhaps we can stop obsessing over who can and can't post where and just leave things how they are now?

Nonsense, I'd love to see a discussion area solely for people who actively play the game. If the discourse was about the game itself, you could filter the takes to only people who have actively been playing the game without having to do the background checks yourself. It could provide invaluable feedback for how our current player base views certain topics.

The presupposes that the forum userbase is representative of the playerbase and I can guarantee you those two are no longer the same given most actionable feedback now comes through the discord.

[Timberpoes]

The headmin team are not interested in further restricting Player's Club access at this time.

Timberpoes: The goal of the Player's Club was to create a space devoid of permabanned shitters and other odious players not attached to the tgstation community anymore. I'm content to keep it with this generally broad scope.
Kieth4: I already am not a fan of players club existing in the first place so like - I don't want to add further restrictions to admins when I'd rather kill it.
Misdoubtful: No additional comments.