/tg/Station 13

We welcome admins to note lowpop murderbone at their discretion. Repeated notes may result in bans.

We welcome admins to note players for indiscriminate murder during low population rounds at their discretion. Indiscriminate murder can be defined as "any killing that is done for no reason other than expanding body count over a certain percentage of the current player count". Repeated notes may result in bans.

SuperNovaa41 wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 6:37 pm I think the main is issue with either of those is determining where the line is.
Everyone has a different definition of lowpop

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 7:45 pm I like Wabash’s shorter version, as well as the one in the OP. But I would say <20 is a bit too low. I consider lowpop <35 personally, because it’s at those numbers that the crew usually doesn’t even have a hope of stopping a murderboner. Perhaps <30 is a bit more reasonable.

Vekter wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 7:56 pm

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 7:45 pm I like Wabash’s shorter version, as well as the one in the OP. But I would say <20 is a bit too low. I consider lowpop <35 personally, because it’s at those numbers that the crew usually doesn’t even have a hope of stopping a murderboner. Perhaps <30 is a bit more reasonable.

I feel like 30 is too high, maybe compromise at 25?

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 8:15 pm Also, admins can just note whatever. The barrier for getting a note removed is incredibly high.

Just overturn the ruling imo

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 8:15 pm I agree with your definition of murderbone vekter.

But...it's quite an odd ruling to have on the books? Like we can note this thing. OK. What happens if someone gets 9 notes for doing it? Does that mean admins should ban them? Or hold them to harsher punishments if they do a bannable offence?

Also, admins can just note whatever. The barrier for getting a note removed is incredibly high.

Just overturn the ruling imo

Lone antagonists can do whatever they want except metagaming/comms, bug/exploit abuse, erotic/creepy stuff, OOC in IC or IC in OOC, and spawn-camping arrivals. Team antagonists can do whatever they want as per lone antagonists, as long as it doesn’t harm their team. Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists as per lone antagonists, but non-antagonists are not allowed to pre-emptively search for, hinder or otherwise seek conflict with antagonists without reasonable prior cause. Non-antags acting like an antag can be treated as an antag.

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 8:31 pm As far as I'm aware, something doesn't have to be against the rules to be noted. The barrier for a note being overturned is "was it factually correct" and "does it paint the player in an unfair light, given the situation"

I am not claiming this is how it should be or not, just this is what I interpret the current rules as

Nabski wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 9:36 pm Can something be thrown in about shuttle calls? Like if the shuttle can't be recalled then who cares if you've murdered the entire crew. I feel like some of the issue is that lowpop shifts go longer so there's a good chance that if you're dead you're dead for a long time.

vect0r wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 10:09 pm Noting for somebody who doesn't break any rules feels yucky, at least for me.

Vekter wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 11:00 pm

vect0r wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 10:09 pm Noting for somebody who doesn't break any rules feels yucky, at least for me.

Lowpop indiscriminate murder is usually covered under rule 1.

conrad wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 12:28 pm I would be very careful with hardlining a definite number for lowpop and would say ~25 rather than 25.

I'm 99% someone would appeal on the grounds that "it wasn't actually lowpop, there's 26 people" on a rulebreak.

conrad wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 12:28 pm I would be very careful with hardlining a definite number for lowpop and would say ~25 rather than 25.

I'm 99% someone would appeal on the grounds that "it wasn't actually lowpop, there's 26 people" on a rulebreak.

Fatal wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 2:54 pm As the person who pushed for the original policy of this, yeah, hard agree

Murderboning is a term that's now thrown around for single kills, and the meaning of it just isn't the same (for those not old like myself and vekter, murderboning was the term for trying to murder as many people on the station as possible as an antagonist, not single kills)

The main reason for the policy is that you would often have multiple antags on <10 players and the whole game just falls apart, and running around trying to murder everyone can just kill off a servers population (and did with event hall) and this doesn't change that, it just makes it clearer

Cobby wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 4:14 am how many people do you think should be able to be freekilled on a server where small changes in population can make or break people joining for a while?

if there are say 25 people and 1-2 traitors, and they get their allocated 3 freekills in each, thats almost 1/4 of the entire server. Lets imagine that they LEGALLY kill a few more because well while killing/hiding the bodies of the free kills they got some very obvious pushback, thats definitely over 1/4th.

Now imagine that some people are observing (players cannot tell this info), so now you have like 1/3 of the station dead, the other third is just trying to explore game mechanics or do wacky stuff they couldnt do in the game at higher pops and equally dgaf about the dead people, and the rest are suppose to face people who are likely more equipped than them (which actually they should just not involve themselves in any form because if they do then they cannot be killed since the baddies got their cap reached).

Heaven forbid the traitor also gets a kill objective later.

The problem with lowpop picking people/a particular person off outside of the game flow is that there are WAY LESS people to attempt to counter the individual, to bother finding the killed, or even get the person healed. Its part of the game if they have you as their objective or the RNG wanted to cause mischief and spawn something that can kill indiscriminately, but getting picked off because "well im an antag" just encourages flat out disconnecting, which is explicitly what the rule is trying to ensure people avoid doing.

This heavily assumes you would not note someone who slaughters half the station if after their objective they were chased by a large percent (an actually low number) of currently active players. When we fight against "boning" in the rules its to prevent senseless killing, not things that naturally transpire because you're an antag (such as defending yourself). The rules attempt to convey that nuance because we dont want admins just calculating percent then noting on it if the killings made sense.

HeyHey wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:24 pm That's a lot of words to imply that LRP players want to play MRP/HRP (where there are much more codified laws about killing without valid IC reasoning.).

Cobby wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:41 pm

HeyHey wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:24 pm That's a lot of words to imply that LRP players want to play MRP/HRP (where there are much more codified laws about killing without valid IC reasoning.).

The rule is based on not killing the server population, it has nothing to do with X-level RP restrictions. Its not LRP to ask you to be cognizant of the population and understand that wiping the few people makes it extremely difficult to get a good amount of players on.

HeyHey wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 3:51 am I disagree with that assumption, at worst a murder boner on lower pop will just shift the players to the other TG servers