/tg/Station 13

So, I had a round today where I was killed and gibbed as a monkey seemingly because another monkey did a crime I had no part in. The admin who kindly assisted me told me I was valid to kill solely because I was a monkey, which goes against the head admin ruling given on this thread: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=33970&p=683576 . Regardless of showing this, it was marked as valid anyways because monkeys are hard to tell apart. I've also seen quite a number of admins fully believe that monkeys are completely valid like the person who helped me out today, so I think it's time for another bout of policy discussion: are monkeys valid solely for being monkeys? If one player monkey does something which makes them valid, does it become valid to kill all player monkeys as a response?

No, this isn't okay. You can't kill players for no reason, and giving 'Kill all X' orders, where X is a group of players, is a rule 1 breach if you don't know whether everyone in the group is definitively evil.
You'll get banned if you say "Kill all assistants" or "Kill all borgs" if there are a few bad actors. You need to make sure everyone in the group is an antagonist of some sort to give such an order.

Escalation can be greatly relaxed if things are tense, but not to the point where you can just indiscriminately murder anyone who satisfies the condition of being part of the group.

Sentient Monkeys used to be valid, from what I recall the reason for this was monkey fever existing, although someone older than me in the community correct me if I'm wrong about this. As of viewtopic.php?p=587048#p587048 monkeys are not valid unless they abuse their abilities, that ruling imo has stood the test of time and still works in current year. As for "If one player monkey does something which makes them valid, does it become valid to kill all player monkeys as a response?" Of course not unless theres reason to believe all monkeys are working together.

As the admin involved, I had in fact been unaware of the 2021 ruling that monkeys were not automatically free-game, but there was further discussion in adminbus about the specific situation with the Captain having been shot by a monkey who was trying to break someone out of a brig cell, and ordered the monkey killings as they were already dealing with a cult, and the armory had already been raided. Me and Kieth agreed with the argument that this met relaxed escalation standards, hence the ruling.

Relaxed escalation standards is fine. Killing them all is not.

Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 10:21 pm As the admin involved, I had in fact been unaware of the 2021 ruling that monkeys were not automatically free-game, but there was further discussion in adminbus about the specific situation with the Captain having been shot by a monkey who was trying to break someone out of a brig cell, and ordered the monkey killings as they were already dealing with a cult, and the armory had already been raided. Me and Kieth agreed with the argument that this met relaxed escalation standards, hence the ruling.

Cult was essentially gone by the time this event occurred, being one of the people who was helping wipe out the literal 3-man cult. Considering I was completely unarmed at the time of being killed and had a completely different appearance to the other monkey who at the time of me seeing him last was naked with no torso and limbs contorted, contrasted quite differently to myself who was wearing sunglasses, a waiter's uniform, and wasn't missing my torso nor did I have arms coming out of my head. I also had my visible ID on me the entire time, as well as having a different number ID than the singular monkey in question. I feel like saying that there was no way to tell us apart simply doesn't make sense here.

It would make everything easier if we just made em valid.

Shaps sums up my view pretty well. Monkies aren't valid in every circumstance but in the specific one it seemed like you were just the casualty of a hectic round.

Monkeys probably need slight differences to their fur and skin color they all look the same aside from what they wear and while yes there are ways to identify one by examining.....people dont do that lol....

We echo the merits of previous ruling on this.

viewtopic.php?p=587048#p587048

Sentient monkeys are not free kills, though if they end up abusing their abilities to do things like break into departments via ventcrawl they are free game.

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Yes.
Domitius: Yes.
Naloac: Yes.

Admins are free to use rule 0 to rule in ways which they feel is best for the health of the round on this matter, while sentient monkies by themselves are not valid without some external factor. Said factors can be much looser.

Kieth4: Echo previous ruling
Misdoubtful: Echo previous ruling