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Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 7:00 pm
by Vekter
Rule 4 states the following:
Lone antagonists can do whatever they want, except metagaming/comms, bug/exploit abuse, erotic/creepy stuff, OOC in IC or IC in OOC, and spawn-camping arrivals. Team antagonists can do whatever they want as per lone antagonists, as long as it doesn’t harm their team. Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists as per lone antagonists, but non-antagonists are not allowed to pre-emptively search for, hinder or otherwise seek conflict with antagonists without reasonable prior cause. Non-antags acting like an antag can be treated as an antag.
There's some grey area here that I'm not comfortable with regarding what constitutes a confirmed antagonist. We've had situations on LRP where people justify killing someone because they were found with contraband or tangentially connected to a crime, the implication being "There's no reason you would have this if you aren't an antag". The problem is that some items are obtainable without needing to be an antag, or players may have obtained them from other antagonists.
I'm making this in good faith, mind you - players who are painfully, obviously being antagonistic (attempting to kill people or break into high-security areas) or are caught actively doing antagonist objectives (stealing the bomb core, sacrificing someone, using runes) are obviously valid, but do we extend the same to people who've done nothing but have minor contraband (ie a door mag or a chameleon kit), or have had their prints found near a Heretic rift?
In short, are we okay with sec killing people over having an emag and nothing else on LRP?
None of this applies to MRP, obviously - there's already rules there on handling antags without killing them.
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 7:09 pm
by Waltermeldron
Being tangentially connected to a crime will always be a case by case when determining if someone can be treated as an antag or not. If they're acting like an antag, they can be treated like one. Finding fingerprints near a heretic rune isn't good enough to immediately treat someone like an antag, but you can definitely arrest and search them, which'll give you your confirmation.
But being found with contraband, specifically syndicate or high-impact contraband, opens you up to being treated like an antag. You can try arguing and getting seccies to believe your side of the story, but it won't change the fact that if you have an item that you aren't supposed to have and secoffs have no way of determining how you got that item except only you as a source, you can be treated like an antagonist.
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 7:35 pm
by vect0r
Having a doorjack is the same as having a desword. They both can only be gotten from an uplink. Murder ‘em for it. Heretic rift? Only search and detain.
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 7:43 pm
by Vekter
vect0r wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:35 pm
Having a doorjack is the same as having a desword. They both can only be gotten from an uplink.
What if they got it from another traitor they killed? They found an uplink and bought the items from it? They found it somewhere in maint? See what I mean? It's too broad to be able to just outright say "If you have this you are valid to being killed". A doorjack lets you break shit. A desword is a lethal weapon. They shouldn't carry the same punishment.
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 8:31 pm
by Itseasytosee2me
personally, and i understand different viewpoints, I think walking around with traitor items on your person without like a piece of paper or something that has the captain’s stamp on it that says “recognized to carry stolen syndicate property” or whatever constitutes acting like an antag, and opening you up to rule 4. Don’t carry badguy toys if you don’t want to be treated like a bad guy, and since this is a roleplaying game you can talk to people and get signatues and stamps or whatever to make it so you are no longer “acting like an antag”
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 8:47 pm
by vect0r
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:43 pm
vect0r wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:35 pm
Having a doorjack is the same as having a desword. They both can only be gotten from an uplink.
What if they got it from another traitor they killed? They found an uplink and bought the items from it? They found it somewhere in maint? See what I mean? It's too broad to be able to just outright say "If you have this you are valid to being killed". A doorjack lets you break shit. A desword is a lethal weapon. They shouldn't carry the same punishment.
If you don’t want to be killed for it, get a stamp from the captain or HOS, or hand it over to sec. The risk you get from carrying syndicate tech without a permit is letting sec assume you are a tot. Again, you can just roleplay the game and get a permit from captain for “stolen syndicate tech” or hand it over for a baton or something. If sec still killed you when you had a captains permit explaining the situation then you could have a problem.
Also how is a desword different? You could still get it off a traitor or whatever.
Carry syndicate items (without a permit) and risk death. Hand them over and get goodwill.
E: easy said the same thing better then I did.
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 9:25 pm
by Rageguy505
Having contraband is usually a clear sign that they can be killed, and my opinion is that its their fault if theyre walking around with antag they found, got from a traitor they killed, or from space. Miscommunication is a important part of the game and I don't blame sec/other people for not knowing if they got it from space or etc.
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 10:31 pm
by sinfulbliss
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:43 pm
vect0r wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:35 pm
Having a doorjack is the same as having a desword. They both can only be gotten from an uplink.
What if they got it from another traitor they killed? They found an uplink and bought the items from it? They found it somewhere in maint? See what I mean? It's too broad to be able to just outright say "If you have this you are valid to being killed". A doorjack lets you break shit. A desword is a lethal weapon. They shouldn't carry the same punishment.
This is a dangerous line to go down. By the same token players holding a cult dagger aren't valid because they could've just "found it," or been holding it to use as a throwing weapon (people actually do this).
If you wanna classify the items into a range of punishments that would at least make sense, but it would bloat sec policy and be pretty unintuitive. What about a syndicate teleporter? Crypto? Those aren't lethal but can be used to cause massive issues around the station. Doorjacks can be used to space departures, arrivals, and maints as well.
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 11:33 pm
by NoxVS
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 10:31 pm
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:43 pm
vect0r wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:35 pm
Having a doorjack is the same as having a desword. They both can only be gotten from an uplink.
What if they got it from another traitor they killed? They found an uplink and bought the items from it? They found it somewhere in maint? See what I mean? It's too broad to be able to just outright say "If you have this you are valid to being killed". A doorjack lets you break shit. A desword is a lethal weapon. They shouldn't carry the same punishment.
This is a dangerous line to go down. By the same token players holding a cult dagger aren't valid because they could've just "found it," or been holding it to use as a throwing weapon (people actually do this).
If you wanna classify the items into a range of punishments that would at least make sense, but it would bloat sec policy and be pretty unintuitive. What about a syndicate teleporter? Crypto? Those aren't lethal but can be used to cause massive issues around the station. Doorjacks can be used to space departures, arrivals, and maints as well.
It isn’t that players cannot ever be touched or accused of anything unless you are 100% certain of their guilt, it’s that you can’t silently execute them on the spot for it. A player has an emag? Grounds for arresting them, searching, etc. It is not grounds for shooting them to death and throwing them into the sun without any other justification.
You cannot kill players for something that you yourself are doing. If you see someone with an esword so you bash their head in and pocket the esword, you are now guilty of the exact same thing you just killed someone over.
And of course, this is all looking at it in a vacuum. If you see someone with a cult dagger and nothing else has occurred, no you can’t immediately kill and round remove them. If you see someone with a cult dagger and comms are down and the last sec officer you saw was when you witnessed one get murdered by a swarm of cultists from the safety of your department and the shuttle was delayed by cult orbs and has since been recalled then yes you can probably safely hurl them out the closest airlock. Even if you were wrong, it’s the players fault for having that in such a dangerous environment.
As long as your justification makes sense and doesn’t put you in the running for a gold medal in mental gymnastics, you’re probably fine. It shouldn’t be a case of seeing if they’ve checked enough boxes to be valid, it should be a case of you having a clear and understandable justification to consider them a threat that has to be immediately removed.
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 1:35 am
by sinfulbliss
NoxVS wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 11:33 pm
It isn’t that players cannot ever be touched or accused of anything unless you are 100% certain of their guilt, it’s that you can’t silently execute them on the spot for it. A player has an emag? Grounds for arresting them, searching, etc. It is not grounds for shooting them to death and throwing them into the sun without any other justification.
You cannot kill players for something that you yourself are doing. If you see someone with an esword so you bash their head in and pocket the esword, you are now guilty of the exact same thing you just killed someone over.
And of course, this is all looking at it in a vacuum. If you see someone with a cult dagger and nothing else has occurred, no you can’t immediately kill and round remove them. If you see someone with a cult dagger and comms are down and the last sec officer you saw was when you witnessed one get murdered by a swarm of cultists from the safety of your department and the shuttle was delayed by cult orbs and has since been recalled then yes you can probably safely hurl them out the closest airlock. Even if you were wrong, it’s the players fault for having that in such a dangerous environment.
As long as your justification makes sense and doesn’t put you in the running for a gold medal in mental gymnastics, you’re probably fine. It shouldn’t be a case of seeing if they’ve checked enough boxes to be valid, it should be a case of you having a clear and understandable justification to consider them a threat that has to be immediately removed.
This isn't how it's treated by pretty much any admin I know of. If I ahelped because sec RR'd me, a traitor, for having an open uplink, before I did anything, I would definitely be laughed out of that ahelp.
This happens
all the time on LRP. People are RR'd by sec for putting up posters, having tot/cult gear, etc. If you don't enforce it this way then you might wanna discuss it with the people adminning LRP in bus because this is simply how it's enforced, you can see from some admin responses to this thread even.
I used to be of the opinion that this was a good thing, since in highpop LRP rounds it was a terrible idea to just give a traitor you've caught 3 minutes brig and let them out, but after progtot with tots being quite weak I probably wouldn't mind seeing an adjustment to it, i.e. you can't kill for simply EOC (having a cult dagger in your bag BTW, regardless of the station state, makes you, beyond a reasonable doubt, an EOC, by anyone's measure).
It’s still a hard sell though, because then you get the Manuel issue of tots being incentivized to minimize their impact on the round as much as possible while silently completing objectives, so that sec aren’t even legally allowed to kill them since they’ve done no kill-worthy crimes.
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 1:40 am
by vect0r
NoxVS wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 11:33 pm
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 10:31 pm
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:43 pm
vect0r wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:35 pm
Having a doorjack is the same as having a desword. They both can only be gotten from an uplink.
What if they got it from another traitor they killed? They found an uplink and bought the items from it? They found it somewhere in maint? See what I mean? It's too broad to be able to just outright say "If you have this you are valid to being killed". A doorjack lets you break shit. A desword is a lethal weapon. They shouldn't carry the same punishment.
This is a dangerous line to go down. By the same token players holding a cult dagger aren't valid because they could've just "found it," or been holding it to use as a throwing weapon (people actually do this).
If you wanna classify the items into a range of punishments that would at least make sense, but it would bloat sec policy and be pretty unintuitive. What about a syndicate teleporter? Crypto? Those aren't lethal but can be used to cause massive issues around the station. Doorjacks can be used to space departures, arrivals, and maints as well.
It isn’t that players cannot ever be touched or accused of anything unless you are 100% certain of their guilt, it’s that you can’t silently execute them on the spot for it. A player has an emag? Grounds for arresting them, searching, etc. It is not grounds for shooting them to death and throwing them into the sun without any other justification.
You cannot kill players for something that you yourself are doing. If you see someone with an esword so you bash their head in and pocket the esword, you are now guilty of the exact same thing you just killed someone over.
And of course, this is all looking at it in a vacuum. If you see someone with a cult dagger and nothing else has occurred, no you can’t immediately kill and round remove them. If you see someone with a cult dagger and comms are down and the last sec officer you saw was when you witnessed one get murdered by a swarm of cultists from the safety of your department and the shuttle was delayed by cult orbs and has since been recalled then yes you can probably safely hurl them out the closest airlock. Even if you were wrong, it’s the players fault for having that in such a dangerous environment.
As long as your justification makes sense and doesn’t put you in the running for a gold medal in mental gymnastics, you’re probably fine. It shouldn’t be a case of seeing if they’ve checked enough boxes to be valid, it should be a case of you having a clear and understandable justification to consider them a threat that has to be immediately removed.
Disagree.If somebody starts running around with a desword, and you kill them for it,
and then pocket it, somebody can kill you for having that desword. The big thing is, you cannot/shouldn't be able to retaliate with said desword, as you are valid for having it/will make people killbait.
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 1:43 am
by sinfulbliss
vect0r wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 1:40 am
NoxVS wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 11:33 pm
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 10:31 pm
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:43 pm
vect0r wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:35 pm
Having a doorjack is the same as having a desword. They both can only be gotten from an uplink.
What if they got it from another traitor they killed? They found an uplink and bought the items from it? They found it somewhere in maint? See what I mean? It's too broad to be able to just outright say "If you have this you are valid to being killed". A doorjack lets you break shit. A desword is a lethal weapon. They shouldn't carry the same punishment.
This is a dangerous line to go down. By the same token players holding a cult dagger aren't valid because they could've just "found it," or been holding it to use as a throwing weapon (people actually do this).
If you wanna classify the items into a range of punishments that would at least make sense, but it would bloat sec policy and be pretty unintuitive. What about a syndicate teleporter? Crypto? Those aren't lethal but can be used to cause massive issues around the station. Doorjacks can be used to space departures, arrivals, and maints as well.
It isn’t that players cannot ever be touched or accused of anything unless you are 100% certain of their guilt, it’s that you can’t silently execute them on the spot for it. A player has an emag? Grounds for arresting them, searching, etc. It is not grounds for shooting them to death and throwing them into the sun without any other justification.
You cannot kill players for something that you yourself are doing. If you see someone with an esword so you bash their head in and pocket the esword, you are now guilty of the exact same thing you just killed someone over.
And of course, this is all looking at it in a vacuum. If you see someone with a cult dagger and nothing else has occurred, no you can’t immediately kill and round remove them. If you see someone with a cult dagger and comms are down and the last sec officer you saw was when you witnessed one get murdered by a swarm of cultists from the safety of your department and the shuttle was delayed by cult orbs and has since been recalled then yes you can probably safely hurl them out the closest airlock. Even if you were wrong, it’s the players fault for having that in such a dangerous environment.
As long as your justification makes sense and doesn’t put you in the running for a gold medal in mental gymnastics, you’re probably fine. It shouldn’t be a case of seeing if they’ve checked enough boxes to be valid, it should be a case of you having a clear and understandable justification to consider them a threat that has to be immediately removed.
Disagree.If somebody starts running around with a desword, and you kill them for it,
and then pocket it, somebody can kill you for having that desword. The big thing is, you cannot/shouldn't be able to retaliate with said desword, as you are valid for having it/will make people killbait.
Agree and disagree. Having a desword is definitely reason to believe someone is an antag, but if it turns out they aren’t an antag, they should absolutely be able to defend themselves with it against whatever validhunter tried to kill them for having it. They don’t have to just roll over and die or let themselves be killed (which, let’s be real, they can run away but if it’s between death and using the desword you are well within your rights using the desword).
Particularly because 99% of the people who would attack someone simply for having a desword, are doing so because they want the loot for themselves. Which ironically makes them valid to attack for the exact same reason.
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 3:15 am
by Archie700
In that case, attacking someone who looted the desword from an antagonist should fall under Escalation Rules with the supposition that the defendermust have the attacker revived if he successfully defends himself.
This presumes that the defender has not adequately informed the station that he has looted it from a traitor.
I'm not so sure about cult items. The only reason you would be holding a cult dagger besides being a cultist would be beelining to security to tell them you stole it from a cultist since you can't really use it for anything else.
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 4:34 am
by Vekter
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 1:35 am
This isn't how it's treated by pretty much any admin I know of. If I ahelped because sec RR'd me, a traitor, for having an open uplink, before I did anything, I would definitely be laughed out of that ahelp.
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:00 pm
Players who are
painfully, obviously being antagonistic (attempting to kill people or break into high-security areas) or are caught actively doing antagonist objectives (stealing the bomb core, sacrificing someone, using runes) are obviously valid...
I would very much count "having an open uplink" as "painfully, obviously being antagonistic".
What I'm basically suggesting is that LRP might benefit from a much looser interpretation of roleplay rule 6, with the understanding being that if that person can without a doubt confirm that you are an antagonist (you have items key to an antagonist's job on you, ie cult knife or heretic gear) you are openly valid to whatever punishment they want.
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 1:35 am
It’s still a hard sell though, because then you get the Manuel issue of tots being incentivized to minimize their impact on the round as much as possible while silently completing objectives, so that sec aren’t even legally allowed to kill them since they’ve done no kill-worthy crimes.
I would personally argue that this isn't the case in general on Manuel. We have had people more often step up and do things that would be considered sabotage and generally impact the round since the semi-recent changes to the antag rules on MRP. I think there's also a large difference between "having an impact on the round" and "blowing up half the station or killing 5+ people". It's a matter of scale.
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 7:09 am
by sinfulbliss
Vekter wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 4:34 am
What I'm basically suggesting is that LRP might benefit from a much looser interpretation of roleplay rule 6, with the understanding being that if that person can without a doubt confirm that you are an antagonist (you have items key to an antagonist's job on you, ie cult knife or heretic gear) you are openly valid to whatever punishment they want.
How is that suggestion any different to how it's enforced? You just said "if someone can without a doubt confirm you're an antag, you're valid." That sounds... Not ground-breaking or different from the current policy?
Key items to an antagonists job: as a cult knife is to cult, a heretic blade is to a heretic, and a crypto/uplink item is to a traitor.
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 1:53 pm
by Vekter
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 7:09 am
Vekter wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 4:34 am
What I'm basically suggesting is that LRP might benefit from a much looser interpretation of roleplay rule 6, with the understanding being that if that person can without a doubt confirm that you are an antagonist (you have items key to an antagonist's job on you, ie cult knife or heretic gear) you are openly valid to whatever punishment they want.
How is that suggestion any different to how it's enforced? You just said "if someone can without a doubt confirm you're an antag, you're valid." That sounds... Not ground-breaking or different from the current policy?
Key items to an antagonists job: as a cult knife is to cult, a heretic blade is to a heretic, and a crypto/uplink item is to a traitor.
There are valid reasons for someone who isn't a traitor to have certain low-impact contraband on them. I don't think I'm being extreme by suggesting "we shouldn't be encouraging players to go straight to murder just because they have something slightly suspicious on them".
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 4:37 pm
by vect0r
Vekter wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 1:53 pm
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 7:09 am
Vekter wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 4:34 am
What I'm basically suggesting is that LRP might benefit from a much looser interpretation of roleplay rule 6, with the understanding being that if that person can without a doubt confirm that you are an antagonist (you have items key to an antagonist's job on you, ie cult knife or heretic gear) you are openly valid to whatever punishment they want.
How is that suggestion any different to how it's enforced? You just said "if someone can without a doubt confirm you're an antag, you're valid." That sounds... Not ground-breaking or different from the current policy?
Key items to an antagonists job: as a cult knife is to cult, a heretic blade is to a heretic, and a crypto/uplink item is to a traitor.
There are valid reasons for someone who isn't a traitor to have certain low-impact contraband on them. I don't think I'm being extreme by suggesting "we shouldn't be encouraging players to go straight to murder just because they have something slightly suspicious on them".
By "slightly suspicious", do you mean something you can only get with a uplink?
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 4:43 pm
by Vekter
vect0r wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 4:37 pm
Vekter wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 1:53 pm
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 7:09 am
Vekter wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 4:34 am
What I'm basically suggesting is that LRP might benefit from a much looser interpretation of roleplay rule 6, with the understanding being that if that person can without a doubt confirm that you are an antagonist (you have items key to an antagonist's job on you, ie cult knife or heretic gear) you are openly valid to whatever punishment they want.
How is that suggestion any different to how it's enforced? You just said "if someone can without a doubt confirm you're an antag, you're valid." That sounds... Not ground-breaking or different from the current policy?
Key items to an antagonists job: as a cult knife is to cult, a heretic blade is to a heretic, and a crypto/uplink item is to a traitor.
There are valid reasons for someone who isn't a traitor to have certain low-impact contraband on them. I don't think I'm being extreme by suggesting "we shouldn't be encouraging players to go straight to murder just because they have something slightly suspicious on them".
By "slightly suspicious", do you mean something you can only get with a uplink?
I think my intent is being misread here.
I'm not necessarily saying that you can't kill someone if you have evidence of them being an antagonist. I'm saying that you shouldn't find potential evidence and immediately jump to "Oh goodie, I get to kill them!". Your first reaction to a person having contraband shouldn't be to blow their head off.
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 4:46 pm
by datorangebottle
I've always thought that people killing other people for having mundane antag shit(chameleon kit, deck of syndie playing cards, syndie headset) is lame as hell.
I also feel that any rules change would have to include some nuance and a clause for relevant context. An emag is much more menacing in the hands of a roboticist, or in the presence of hazardous emagged objects(the holodeck, cyborgs, etc). If someone's bought an emag and just used it to shitpost on the comms console, cutting their head off for that is a little extreme.
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 6:08 pm
by Vekter
The main things I want to prevent with this are:
1) Gunning down someone in a hallway because you found tangential evidence that they are an antagonist, and
2) People having their antag rounds screwed by being caught for something relatively lame (vandalism, B&E) and getting executed for having an emag on them.
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 6:15 pm
by Itseasytosee2me
Vekter wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 6:08 pm
The main things I want to prevent with this are:
1) Gunning down someone in a hallway because you found tangential evidence that they are an antagonist, and
2) People having their antag rounds screwed by being caught for something relatively lame (vandalism, B&E) and getting executed for having an emag on them.
My rebuttal, and what I always do on antag round where I am carrying contraband, is to use items like the storage implant, fedoras that can store items, and cut out books to store stolen or traitor items. I've seen other people store their gear they aren't using in a maint room while they went out do do crimes where they didn't need those items, so if they got caught security would have no proof they were and antagonist.
I personally thing the act of smuggling is interesting gameplay, and also sort of rooted in media tropes like "They pulled over the car because the tail light was out and found that they were smuggling a trunk full of cocaine or guns or the magic gold McGuffin or whatever, I think its an interesting story beat.
Re: Clarify the "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists" clause
Posted: Wed May 24, 2023 6:27 pm
by Vekter
Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 6:15 pm
Vekter wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 6:08 pm
The main things I want to prevent with this are:
1) Gunning down someone in a hallway because you found tangential evidence that they are an antagonist, and
2) People having their antag rounds screwed by being caught for something relatively lame (vandalism, B&E) and getting executed for having an emag on them.
My rebuttal, and what I always do on antag round where I am carrying contraband, is to use items like the storage implant, fedoras that can store items, and cut out books to store stolen or traitor items. I've seen other people store their gear they aren't using in a maint room while they went out do do crimes where they didn't need those items, so if they got caught security would have no proof they were and antagonist.
I personally thing the act of smuggling is interesting gameplay, and also sort of rooted in media tropes like "They pulled over the car because the tail light was out and found that they were smuggling a trunk full of cocaine or guns or the magic gold McGuffin or whatever, I think its an interesting story beat.
Yeah, I can see reinforcing this kind of thing. I hadn't really thought about the different ways you can hide shit that we've added over the years. I suppose we can close this; most people don't seem to be a fan of the idea.