/tg/Station 13

okay i think we've started a trend of making clickbaity titles to attract attention so i hope that was sufficient to catch you

here's the deal

i feel like changeling is getting the shaft when it comes to their own restraints versus how much the crew is able to (and WILL) cut off your nose, your ears, your tongue and eyes plus your arms and legs because that is their fetish (and then cremate and shuttlegib them)

rule 6 reads
particularly, the fact that restricted antagonists should be handled in proportion to their crimes. typically, your presence on the station is a most heinous crime because people will roleplay it out that you've killed, eaten, and replaced the crewmember that you started as. this provides them a reason to rr you based on the single fact that you got the funnytext at the start of the round, however it is you end up being revealed, be it harmful or harmless.

and that's totally cool.

what i would like, to compensate for this very wide gap between escalation, is this.



if changeling are toast the moment they're outed, let them say FUCK

thanks for reading, upvote if you agree

This would also mean that changelings could(and I think should) be validhunted as every other antag ticked yes on that list is a global threat

Bmon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:35 am This would also mean that changelings could(and I think should) be validhunted as every other antag ticked yes on that list is a global threat

yeah, it happens anyway so may as well throw them a bone.

bad way to go about it because you'd have a stealth antag running around blending unsuspecting crewmembers which is very much not in line with the other antags that are unrestricted (loud messy guys like nukies and wizards)

it would however make sense for changelings to be able to deal with anyone who does suspect them to be a changeling however they see fit. as long as the person you're dealing with knows or suspects you may be the big bad valid changeling man then you can act like it.

blackdav123 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:10 am bad way to go about it because you'd have a stealth antag running around blending unsuspecting crewmembers which is very much not in line with the other antags that are unrestricted (loud messy guys like nukies and wizards)

it would however make sense for changelings to be able to deal with anyone who does suspect them to be a changeling however they see fit. as long as the person you're dealing with knows or suspects you may be the big bad valid changeling man then you can act like it.

might help with the idea that you should be looking over your shoulder at any moment. the suspense of interacting with someone and not being able to use your metafriending superpowers to know if they'll suddenly lunge at you or not because oh shit it was actually someone using your friends face and voice.

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:32 am -snip-

im just afraid of the scenario where someone runs around killing randoms with firelocks or spears without ever saying a word. ideally if you want to go on a monster rampage you should be using your armblade and shield and stuff like that rather than just spearing people until sec finally kills you and dumps your body somewhere you can revive to continue the spree with another face

I like it. It feels weird to ever do anything except outright execute changelings due to the fact they are shapeshifting murder monsters who can steal your identity. Changelings should be free to behave like careless alien beings perfectly willing to kill anyone and everyone to get what they want. Anyone abusing changeling murderbone rules exemptions to play the game in a lame manner can be dealt with using RPR10

Let them say fuck.

I’m in full support of this but I really wish that there either be a chemical or something that can be surgically removed to retransform people back into their round start selves. Hell, put it behind research so the ling can still mass use it, at least in the early game. The “I dna sting everyone to look like the gaudiest felinid” joke is super fucking tired at this point.

It’s to the point that the shuttle can be called because communication is impossible when everyone is “Myrhryon Zuzukati” the neon pink haired felinid #9,284,571 and the round is probably going to last an hour to an hour and a half (on Manuel at least) You can get your dna backed up but good fucking luck with that, I’ve seen it done like five times on Manuel.

Changelings should 100% be able to go hog wild since they’re a transforming alien monster thing. Most people tend to hunt the shit out of them already since they either dna sting people or kill you if you’re alone with them. Also the aforementioned “ling has already killed someone before the round even started” thing.

1000% support! Changelings are monsters and should absolutely be allowed to pick the crew off one at a time.

Yeah I agree. Sec should basically always rr Lings and Lings should be able to say fuck

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 8:12 am I’m in full support of this but I really wish that there either be a chemical or something that can be surgically removed to retransform people back into their round start selves. Hell, put it behind research so the ling can still mass use it, at least in the early game. The “I dna sting everyone to look like the gaudiest felinid” joke is super fucking tired at this point.

It’s to the point that the shuttle can be called because communication is impossible when everyone is “Myrhryon Zuzukati” the neon pink haired felinid #9,284,571 and the round is probably going to last an hour to an hour and a half (on Manuel at least) You can get your dna backed up but good fucking luck with that, I’ve seen it done like five times on Manuel.

Changelings should 100% be able to go hog wild since they’re a transforming alien monster thing. Most people tend to hunt the shit out of them already since they either dna sting people or kill you if you’re alone with them. Also the aforementioned “ling has already killed someone before the round even started” thing.

I am familiar with the exact round that inspired this post, and typically i get bombarded with prayers asking people to fix it. I unfortunately never see the transform sting used to do anything interesting or deceptive, only piss people off.

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:42 pm

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 8:12 am stuff

I am familiar with the exact round that inspired this post, and typically i get bombarded with prayers asking people to fix it. I unfortunately never see the transform sting used to do anything interesting or deceptive, only piss people off.

The sad thing is I’m not even recalling a specific round, this is just what happens 90% of the time there’s a ling.

Yeah there's no shortage of pink felinid mass transformations. Only thinking worse is turning everyone into the tider of the week.

Mass transformation is weak shit, real lings play musical chairs with voices and faces. The chef is now the captain, the Clown is now the chef, the chaplain is now the clown, etc.
Communication possible, but insanely confusing, and it's easy to lose the ling in the lurch.

But yeah everything said in the opening post makes sense and should already be a thing.

lings should be awarded the capabilities to ice any fool who needs dead yes, no contest.

on one hand transform stinging people gets old fast, but on the other people take it to heart really fast when they get funny clicked and then spend the rest of the round hunting the ling because they now have motivation to kill and shuttlegib them (they cannot stand more than 30 minutes of playing anything but their custom crafted deeplore donutsteel OC), so i could go either way on the sting, if it has the chance to be removed via chem shenaniganry then god bless making chemists work more (they deserve it).

normalizing the space parasite that feeds on peoples DNA being a bastard creature and in turn they get to act like bastard creatures, who wouldn't enjoy that?

+1 for this for sure. Also I sure hope someone updates TG ling to the current goon one that has horror form and such. Please don't @ me about stealing from goon either - the current changeling TG has (which, not coincidentally, is almost the exact same one EVERY OTHER server has) is the same one from the original goonstation base that spawned TG to begin with, so it would be more of an update than anything (going from old goonling to new goonling!)

Also I'd fucking love to see a stealth antag that gets to actually murder people. My dream is to have just a serial killer Hannibal Lecter style antag, without station-destroying powers or some ridiculous "ascension", just a muderous bastard that provides food for paranoia. Ling would be way stronger than I'd like but still sort of that niche if unrestricted, so bring on the fucks, i say

nukularpower wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 7:20 pm My dream is to have just a serial killer Hannibal Lecter style antag, without station-destroying powers or some ridiculous "ascension", just a muderous bastard that provides food for paranoia. Ling would be way stronger than I'd like but still sort of that niche if unrestricted, so bring on the fucks, i say

I agree with you that this is a great on paper. But people will complain about murderboning because they can't stand to no longer be a part of the shift. On the other side of the coin, power gamers who have no intention to have any interesting interactions with anyone will use it to just wordlessly kill everyone.

I'm always a little wary when we start talking about unrestricting antags on MRP. I feel like a lot of people come to those servers to avoid having to deal with randomly getting their shit kicked in for no discernible reason.

That being said, I feel like this does make sense. Changelings are already pretty much KOS as is because they're almost impossible to contain reliably without setting up a BZ room or some shit. I feel like letting them kill more often would help with the issue of them having to rely on dumb gimmicks like "old rhinovirus but not curable".

Vekter wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:32 pm I'm always a little wary when we start talking about unrestricting antags on MRP. I feel like a lot of people come to those servers to avoid having to deal with randomly getting their shit kicked in for no discernible reason.

I get this feeling, but personally, I join MRP because I want to play out being a very fragile human on a very dangerous space station without everyone else acting like frothing lunatics for no apparent reason. I know I'm not going to change anyones mind but coming into this game expecting to live through the shift is not the right approach imo - i am happy if my near-certain death is ironic or funny, but even if its not, hopefully there was fun to be had on the journey

in short, I feel I dont die often *enough*

The purpose of kill/ "murderbone" policy is foregoing your mechanics to just pick people off, its not like "you cant kill more than 5 people unless your chart says Yes".

Changelings have reason to off people on their own on top of the other aspects we allow killing for (self defense, witness, etc.). They already have a wide net of legal reasons to kill people, I dont see the allure of giving people things passes to ignore the rule without very good reason.

Cobby wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:58 pm The purpose of kill/ "murderbone" policy is foregoing your mechanics to just pick people off, its not like "you cant kill more than 5 people unless your chart says Yes".

Changelings have reason to off people on their own on top of the other aspects we allow killing for (self defense, witness, etc.). They already have a wide net of legal reasons to kill people, I dont see the allure of giving people things passes to ignore the rule without very good reason.

remember this is the server where someone got screamed at for "lowpop murderbone" for literally killing their target

by someone who was also a traitor and had successfully killed their own target

Screemonster wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 11:19 am

Cobby wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:58 pm The purpose of kill/ "murderbone" policy is foregoing your mechanics to just pick people off, its not like "you cant kill more than 5 people unless your chart says Yes".

Changelings have reason to off people on their own on top of the other aspects we allow killing for (self defense, witness, etc.). They already have a wide net of legal reasons to kill people, I dont see the allure of giving people things passes to ignore the rule without very good reason.

remember this is the server where someone got screamed at for "lowpop murderbone" for literally killing their target

by someone who was also a traitor and had successfully killed their own target

You say that, but I get more adminhelps from Bagil for lowpop murderbone than I do Manuel like ever.

Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 6:53 pm

Screemonster wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 11:19 am

Cobby wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:58 pm The purpose of kill/ "murderbone" policy is foregoing your mechanics to just pick people off, its not like "you cant kill more than 5 people unless your chart says Yes".

Changelings have reason to off people on their own on top of the other aspects we allow killing for (self defense, witness, etc.). They already have a wide net of legal reasons to kill people, I dont see the allure of giving people things passes to ignore the rule without very good reason.

remember this is the server where someone got screamed at for "lowpop murderbone" for literally killing their target

by someone who was also a traitor and had successfully killed their own target

You say that, but I get more adminhelps from Bagil for lowpop murderbone than I do Manuel like ever.

this could also be because bagil is basically always lowpop while manuel is usually 30+ players

Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 6:53 pm

Screemonster wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 11:19 am

Cobby wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:58 pm The purpose of kill/ "murderbone" policy is foregoing your mechanics to just pick people off, its not like "you cant kill more than 5 people unless your chart says Yes".

Changelings have reason to off people on their own on top of the other aspects we allow killing for (self defense, witness, etc.). They already have a wide net of legal reasons to kill people, I dont see the allure of giving people things passes to ignore the rule without very good reason.

remember this is the server where someone got screamed at for "lowpop murderbone" for literally killing their target

by someone who was also a traitor and had successfully killed their own target

You say that, but I get more adminhelps from Bagil for lowpop murderbone than I do Manuel like ever.

yeah but how many of those are actual murderbone versus the traitor's literal objective

Screemonster wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 9:36 pm yeah but how many of those are actual murderbone versus the traitor's literal objective

None, some of them are kills that aren't the objective but they're almost always 100% valid.

I'm genuinely curious about one thing tho, can midround lings kill and absorb a random person to get themselves a plausible identity with no prior interaction on the ling's part?

DaydreamIQ wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 4:53 am I'm genuinely curious about one thing tho, can midround lings kill and absorb a random person to get themselves a plausible identity with no prior interaction on the ling's part?

By the rules, no. But we should.

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 5:44 am

DaydreamIQ wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 4:53 am I'm genuinely curious about one thing tho, can midround lings kill and absorb a random person to get themselves a plausible identity with no prior interaction on the ling's part?

By the rules, no. But we should.

I'm fairly certain they do allow for it. I'd count "needing a disguise so I can steal shit without getting caught" as a valid reason to do antag things. That's well within their objectives.

When we really break this issue down, I think the problem is less "Changelings need to be able to do whatever they want" and more "there's a lack of understanding as far as how the MRP antag rules work in general and we should be clarifying them better". Pretty much any antag can say "fuck" to a certain degree as long as it lines up with their goals. The intent of the rule was never to rob antags of their bite, but to prevent situations where they'd go on random killing sprees for no reason.

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 7:37 pm

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 5:44 am

DaydreamIQ wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 4:53 am I'm genuinely curious about one thing tho, can midround lings kill and absorb a random person to get themselves a plausible identity with no prior interaction on the ling's part?

By the rules, no. But we should.

I'm fairly certain they do allow for it. I'd count "needing a disguise so I can steal shit without getting caught" as a valid reason to do antag things. That's well within their objectives.

If you look at the MRP rules, there is pretty little indication that its ok to kill people for selfish reasons not directly related to your objectives. I agree that their should be an amendment saying that you can kill and antagonize for reasons of greed, selfishness, or power, and I personally would not punish a player for it.

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 8:39 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 7:37 pm

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 5:44 am

DaydreamIQ wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 4:53 am I'm genuinely curious about one thing tho, can midround lings kill and absorb a random person to get themselves a plausible identity with no prior interaction on the ling's part?

By the rules, no. But we should.

I'm fairly certain they do allow for it. I'd count "needing a disguise so I can steal shit without getting caught" as a valid reason to do antag things. That's well within their objectives.

If you look at the MRP rules, there is pretty little indication that its ok to kill people for selfish reasons not directly related to your objectives. I agree that their should be an amendment saying that you can kill and antagonize for reasons of greed, selfishness, or power, and I personally would not punish a player for it.

Killing a person to disguise yourself as them as a prerequisite for your objective is a killing directly related to your objective. Only counter would be if you objective didn't feasibly require you to disguise or that specific person made no sense to disguise as.

Lacran wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 3:32 am Killing a person to disguise yourself as them as a prerequisite for your objective is a killing directly related to your objective. Only counter would be if you objective didn't feasibly require you to disguise or that specific person made no sense to disguise as.

Its arguable, and an admin could easily interpret otherwise. I agree that your interpretation makes the game more fun, but the rules do not make it clear.

"If questioned about a chain of events involving indirect actions, the antagonist should be able to clearly explain what events in the current shift led them to their course of action without resorting to hypotheticals. "

This is the relevant part of defining "objective related" actions. Basically can you concretely say why you did the thing in the pursuit of x.

Yeah we're fine with this, let clings say fuck. They get rred when caught anyway, let them fuck about before that.