/tg/Station 13

Title, should using grilles for husking be allowed? It causes disruption to the power system and supposedly damages the general power net. I think it should be allowed withing reason, ex of reason: Using it to husk 1-2 people and letting others deconstruct it whenever they want. Ex of not in reason: Keep pushing more monkeys/corpses/people into it, preventing destruction of the device and re-placing it when people break it.

"supposedly damages the general power net."

What do you mean by this?

CPTANT wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 3:39 pm "supposedly damages the general power net."

What do you mean by this?

I should have worded that better, but what I meant is damages the general health of the powernet (unloading certain apcs of power fully etc)

If we're presuming this is being done by antagonists... why wouldn't it be allowed? It's just a ghetto powersink. Antags obviously want to damage the powernet.

IS the argument that it's too difficult to counter because they can be built basically anywhere in a dark corner of maintenance? I feel like that applies to regular powersinks too.

I think the only real concern here would be the device either being used to quickly husk corpses faster than you normally should be able to or it causing lag.

Usually when there is a power sink like that the engineers or another player finds it quickly.
Sometimes it takes a lot longer and we have a whole crew complaining for a while. They usually start looking for the sink too. Heck, their response rate might be better than a blob report because EVERYONE needs power.

Is there a scenario where a non-antag would want to husk something?

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:02 am Is there a scenario where a non-antag would want to husk something?

A clown making a funni monkey killing device in the theatre would be one. Would that be allowed?

Let me try and state my point a bit better - the only reasons we should be disallowing things as an antag is:

1) If it's an exploit.
2) It negatively impacts server performance.
3) It violates rules 8 or 11.

I'm not entirely certain that this matches any of that. Now, if the argument is to disallow it for non-antags, we need to factor in whether or not there's an acceptable use for it outside of antagonistic purposes. I think there's an argument for both sides here, namely that it can be something a clown or an engineer throws together because they think it's funny, but if it has a direct negative impact on the station as a whole (ie it fucks up the power grid somehow), it might be good to disallow them on that basis.

If we're going to compare them to disposals loops/traps, then the difference here is that it could be fucking with the power grid in ways I'm not aware of. Someone who understands powernet code better than I do will have to comment on that.

Vekter wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:12 am Let me try and state my point a bit better - the only reasons we should be disallowing things as a non-antag is:

1) If it's an exploit.
2) It negatively impacts server performance.
3) It violates rules 8 or 11.

I'm not entirely certain that this matches any of that. Now, if the argument is to disallow it for non-antags-...

Did you mean antags the first time?

Sightld2 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:19 am

Vekter wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:12 am Let me try and state my point a bit better - the only reasons we should be disallowing things as a non-antag is:

1) If it's an exploit.
2) It negatively impacts server performance.
3) It violates rules 8 or 11.

I'm not entirely certain that this matches any of that. Now, if the argument is to disallow it for non-antags-...

Did you mean antags the first time?

Yeah, I fixed it.

I recall someone making a pull request about this, that got closed, which mentions that they are ghetto powersinks

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/72273

Archie700 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 9:58 am I recall someone making a pull request about this, that got closed, which mentions that they are ghetto powersinks

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/72273

I disagree with the entire premise of the the PR. Making a ghetto powersink with 2 monkeys on a conveyor sounds exactly what the game was meant to be.

Archie700 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 9:58 am I recall someone making a pull request about this, that got closed, which mentions that they are ghetto powersinks

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/72273

Okay, so that brings up a valid reason to forbid them for non-antags, as they actively harm the station at large.

Slightly off-topic but I might port the PR that makes grilles take damage every time they shock something which would mostly resolve this issue.

if someone is creating problems (blowing out the powergrid) for no benefit to themself (husking monkies probably doesnt count as "benefit") then you are definitely valid to smash their machine and escalate against them if they try to stop you

if they are making an effort to not destroy station power like using their own portable generator or beefing up the SM then you probably shouldnt care

Is this really worth litigating in the form of a policy proposal? will anyone remember this conversation?
Seems best done case to case.

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/77860

Worth noting that this was merged recently so they're no longer infinite

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 6:08 pm https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/77860

Worth noting that this was merged recently so they're no longer infinite

Rip Grill traps

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 6:08 pm https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/77860

Worth noting that this was merged recently so they're no longer infinite

I'll close this thread in that case, hardly relevant any more.