/tg/Station 13

Allegedly (as i didn't play at that time), Golems were removed from config in icemoon because they would go up to the station and grief shit. Icemoon suffers from a lack of any meaninful ghost roles, excluding the survivor one which isn't really fun.
Maybe, on MRP with more robust antag policies, they'd be fine to bring back?

I'm pretty sure free golems now get a huge slowdown and slower do-after speeds if they go on-station now. I think you could re-enable them on all servers, not just the MRP ones.

Sadly even MRP players can't be trusted not to fuck up rounds as golems, we once had a malf AI who was about ten seconds away from going delta when a Golem AI (Who is specificlally lawed NOT to interact with the station) turned off their APC. Its like the Cybersun ship, really cool but a minority keep fucking it over for everyone else

This is just the epitome of "This is why we cant have nice things". Players just straight up refuse to not abuse the ghost roles, so it got taken away.

I don't think players have changed since they were removed, so re-implementation would be a bad idea.

What benefit would they bring?

Ultra Veto hard no, these caused an ungodly number of tickets and issues that it is in no way worth it to bring them back. I know about the code changes, they did nothing to fix icebox golems.

Double posting because I cannot fully voice how bad of an idea this is. No matter the code changes made free golems would find every loophole in existence to continue griefing the station to an insane degree. Doesn't matter how many bans or notes were made, it was a honeypot for round-ruining behaviour.

I'm kinda curious, what makes Icebox golems that much worse than lavaland golems? Does the lack of a 10 seconds shuttle trip between them and the station really make that big of a difference?

GPeckman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 3:19 pm I'm kinda curious, what makes Icebox golems that much worse than lavaland golems? Does the lack of a 10 seconds shuttle trip between them and the station really make that big of a difference?

Yes, because it's not just a 10 second shuttle trip, it's like 4 doors they don't have access to and a 10 second shuttle trip.

MRP or not doesn't change anything, I've seen countless golems come onto the station to soft grief.

...what makes Icebox golems that much worse than lavaland golems? Does the lack of a 10 seconds shuttle trip between them and the station really make that big of a difference?

I'm fairly certain Free Golems can't use the mining shuttle, unless they go out of their way to make an AI (can they still do that?) or get someone to help them.
Which is completely not an issue on Icebox. You can just walk on.

Oh, I thought the only thing stopping lavaland golems was the hazard warning debuff. That makes a lot more sense.

Even with the debuff, it doesn't stop icebox golems from griefing the station. I've seen them make AI, make posibrain combat mechs, use gibtonite, subvert the station AI, and more.

The fact that lavaland has a z-level shuttle separation means that nearly all of those methods do not work.

Slightly off topic, but would some of the other lavaland roles be fine?
Like for Seed Vault and artic ashwalkers (Icewalkers?), I don't think this is so much of an issue.
It's just that Icebox seems generally devoid of spawner roles.

Blue142 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:51 pm Slightly off topic, but would some of the other lavaland roles be fine?
Like for Seed Vault and artic ashwalkers (Icewalkers?), I don't think this is so much of an issue.
It's just that Icebox seems generally devoid of spawner roles.

All of those roles have exactly the same problems, as they are human mobs who have hands.

Blue142 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:51 pm Slightly off topic, but would some of the other lavaland roles be fine?
Like for Seed Vault and artic ashwalkers (Icewalkers?), I don't think this is so much of an issue.
It's just that Icebox seems generally devoid of spawner roles.

You would need to somehow find a way to prevent players of those roles from getting to the station. The only reason they work on other maps is because they have to explicitly break into an area they don't have access to and then use a shuttle to get onto the station. The only way those roles would work on Icebox would be if you either:

1) Introduced incredibly frustrating and annoying restrictions to help prevent them from griefing the station (the drone problem), or
2) Put the station in space.

As always, the problem is not the roles or the code or even how we administrate it. The problem is that no matter how many times you give a player a hammer and ask them very nicely to only hit nails with it, they will, eventually, use it to bash someone's brains in.

tl;dr It's not happening, I would recommend helping coders come up with more appropriate ghost roles for Ice Box.

E: I had a theory involving either a large chasm or a plasma moat and a tram you had to take to get across it, but we've seen from the multitudes of times Syndicate outpost agents have gotten over the lava moat on Lavaland that it doesn't work and... I dunno, personally? I don't like the idea of cleaving like 30% of the map off with a giant chasm just so we can maybe have golems.

No never for reasons previously posted in the thread. This is a very bad idea and any future headmin teams should be well aware that this is a bad idea.

Chesh, Fikou, TheBibleMelts - Unanimous No