/tg/Station 13

I'd like us to codify into rules that urgent adminhelps must include the name of the person you're reporting an issue regarding (ie: the person who's committing obvious grief) instead of the job title. I cannot count on two hands how many times I've joined to try and sort out an adminhelp about "the captain killing someone" just to find out there isn't a captain.

If you're going to ping admins, you should at least be bothered to tell us who exactly you're having a problem with. No job titles. "HOS KILLIGN ME" isn't good enough. "Stunlocker Weldspace (the HoS) killign me" is fine.

Where in the rules would you codify this? I also don’t think it will encourage people to specify even if it is in the rules since people generally don’t check the rules for updates.

Probably more of a code request you’re asking for, maybe it could mention this in the prompt.

What sinful said, it should mention it in the prompt urgent ahelping gives you

kinnebian wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 9:30 pm What sinful said, it should mention it in the prompt urgent ahelping gives you

People don't read that, but if it's there, we could at least tell them off/note them for it. Wouldn't be our fault if they failed to read it.

E: Watermelon (who coded it) says it's config so this is still a relevant thread

Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 9:41 pm People don't read that, but if it's there, we could at least tell them off/note them for it. Wouldn't be our fault if they failed to read it.

This doesn’t seem fair to me. The player is going out their way to alert the admins of a rulebreak, but because they left out some information, now they’re going to be noted for it?

If the goal is to remind them to include a name for their next urgent ahelp, that goal will fail, because they will likely avoid urgent ahelping altogether after being noted for it.

Even prima facie this requirement doesn’t make sense. Sometimes players don’t even know who the person is that they’re reporting, because players unlike admins can’t pull up someone’s player panel to see their ckey. There are disguises and all sorts of types of grief that makes it hard to put your finger on a name as a player reporting.

And finally, no one is forcing you to meticulously deduce who it is they’re reporting. You can simply ignore the ticket if it doesn’t have enough information to go off of.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 11:23 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 9:41 pm People don't read that, but if it's there, we could at least tell them off/note them for it. Wouldn't be our fault if they failed to read it.

This doesn’t seem fair to me. The player is going out their way to alert the admins of a rulebreak, but because they left out some information, now they’re going to be noted for it?

If the goal is to remind them to include a name for their next urgent ahelp, that goal will fail, because they will likely avoid urgent ahelping altogether after being noted for it.

Even prima facie this requirement doesn’t make sense. Sometimes players don’t even know who the person is that they’re reporting, because players unlike admins can’t pull up someone’s player panel to see their ckey. There are disguises and all sorts of types of grief that makes it hard to put your finger on a name as a player reporting.

And finally, no one is forcing you to meticulously deduce who it is they’re reporting. You can simply ignore the ticket if it doesn’t have enough information to go off of.

Thank you for your input on the matter.

I would prefer to Code Request:

• The ability to check antags from Discord
• The ability to check the Crew Manifest from Discord
• The ability to Reject an insufficiently useful Urgent Ahelp with the standard "Reword your ahelp and try again" message from Discord

considering how urgent adminhelps require you to read the infobox and follow what the infobox says and type out "I understand", it's completely your fault if you then decide to send something that breaks the usage rules outlined within the infobox.

Any note or bans applied would only be applied to the urgent adminhelp system. If a player can't utilise it properly, then they should reconsider whether they actually want to use the system or not, lest they be urgent ahelp banned.
Though I agree with the fact that forcing players to include a name is a bad idea. It was an idea of mine to code a systematic way of reporting specific players so that the information about the player you reported would be sent along the chain, but I ran into the same problem where players would not necessarily know who committed the grief but knew that someone caused grief.

Common examples of where you might see this sort of problem where an urgent adminhelp is warranted but it's hard for the player to name the griefer:
1. Maxcap bombings (could be griefer, could be antag)
2. Plasmaflooding
3. Contraptions that cause grief (infinite disposals, etc)

That's not to say I disagree with this policy thread. I primarily think it could be important to outline to players that if they are reporting a specific player rather than an instance of grief with an unknown griefer, then they should include a name rather than a job title if possible.

Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 11:47 pm I would prefer to Code Request:

• The ability to check antags from Discord
• The ability to check the Crew Manifest from Discord
• The ability to Reject an insufficiently useful Urgent Ahelp with the standard "Reword your ahelp and try again" message from Discord

this feature request would require (likely) refactoring the urgent adminhelp system.
primarily because it uses a webhook to send information so it can't actually receive any information through the discord.
This would be impossible to do with webhooks only, though you could do it with tgs, but for better UX, it would be better to just refactor the urgent adminhelp system to use a discord bot.

Waltermeldron wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 11:59 pm Though I agree with the fact that forcing players to include a name is a bad idea. It was an idea of mine to code a systematic way of reporting specific players so that the information about the player you reported would be sent along the chain, but I ran into the same problem where players would not necessarily know who committed the grief but knew that someone caused grief.

I was under the impression that everyone involved in this discussion would understand that I'm not enough of an asshole to note someone for not including a name when they don't know who actually committed the grief.

I'm asking that we do something to steer players away from just sending "CAPTAIN GRIFFIN ME" in urgent adminhelps, and I think adding something like "If you know who is committing said grief, please provide their name, not their role or job title" would be appropriate.

Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 11:47 pm I would prefer to Code Request:

• The ability to check antags from Discord

We kind of already have a way to do this, it's just a little roundabout - if you use the namecheck feature on the TGS bots, it'll tell you if the player you're looking for is an antag.

Yeah, we can add some guidelines to the infobox. The updated one is this: Fikou, Cheshify, TBM: +1