/tg/Station 13

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rpxVrzXrfU
I ahelped this guy and told the jannie to tell the detective to stop searching people for no reason. But the jannie told me that searching people during cult is not random searching. So my question is when is it random searching and when is it not random searching because I expect there to at least be some reason to investigate this person instead of just you existed on the map during cult.

"Random searching" is defined as "searching someone without a valid reason to do so". It's always gonna depend a little on how bad things are, but "There's a cult around and we're trying to find its members" is a valid reason to search someone in my books.

I think there's an argument to be made that you should only be searching people who you actually think are cultists and not "everyone with a pulse", though.

random searching during confirmed cult is fine imo

For clarity sake, I was the one who handled this ticket. I did speak to the detective involved and they said to me during this that they searched anyone suspicious which honestly is like 90% of the crew, rather than it being truly "random"

I think searching people running around in maint though, with confirmed cult going on, is a reasonable thing to do, if you aren't cult, getting your bag searched eliminates you as a threat

Cult was also discovered like 5 min into the round and they didn't have red eyes. I can understand that you want to check for red eyes but going bag checking everyone on the station with a pulse just seems like really shit especially when we have dynamic. it is not like they were a big threat to the station at the time.

Mailbox wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 9:46 pm Cult was also discovered like 5 min into the round and they didn't have red eyes. I can understand that you want to check for red eyes but going bag checking everyone on the station with a pulse just seems like really shit especially when we have dynamic. it is not like they were a big threat to the station at the time.

Cult is kind of a rough game mode for players because there's very little separation between "not a credible threat" and "they're literally summoning Nar'sie right now". Cults can get out of hand damn fast if you're not paying attention to them, so I feel like some leniency in searching bags is okay. It just means cultists have to be careful about where they store their shit.

"random" denotes "no probable cause"

as others have said, there's many ways to easily gain probable cause to want to search someone. if the security level is elevated and they have credible information to believe a specific threat exists are 2 examples.

ie, "someone mentioned cult activity in med maint", secoff goes to med maint, finds a guy standing there in the dark on his own, this is probable cause to search him because he's in the area where you have reason to believe a crime was recently committed.

the dream is to have this be an IC issue where if you're under the thumb of sec, let's say you really were just some engineer fixing something in maint when sec turn up searching for something that has nothing to do with you, then you would have IC means of recourse to address this (explaining a credible alibi in interrogation, getting a lawyer, etc) but we all know the game is rarely this coherent when a stationwide threat like cult is involved.

i actually like to see searches utilized. seeing antags walk around having free reign is annoying. the paranoia goes both ways!

So long as Cult still has its gamer one shot stun mechanic and its deconversions are still complete bitch to actually do. People are gonna do everything in their power to stop them before they get outta hand from random searching to mindshielding everyone they KNOW is deconverted to just calling the shuttle because that's usually the best course of action.

Frankly, the captain reading "It ate the sun" from his classified NT security files and not going full 1984 - holy water edition on the crew is already sacrificing roleplay for game balance. The realistic response would be far more brutal than what the rules allow for right now.
We're talking crew wide internment camps, systematic holy-waterboarding and execution at the slightest hint of dissent.

Ehhh… If cult is confirmed, sec is allowed to search anyone for cult shit just because of how insanely fast cult can snowball. If you had to wait to find a cult base or get lucky and witness a stunhanding you’d be outpaced by any competent cult.

As a secmain though (cringes), it would be interesting to disallow cult randomsearching. Probably would buff cult a bit, maybe put them on par with rev as far as win % which wouldn’t be a bad thing. Also would make it matter less when that one dude gets cult outted 5 min in.

Why is it so important that crew can kill cult before the fight gets interesting? if the cult don't have red eyes and are discovered they are going to get floored and if everyone is aware that random searcher are allowed every other antag on the station is also fucked. There are many other things you can do that isn't just finding and killing cultist in order to prevent cultist from "spiraling out of control".

cult already have a built in system so you don't have to check everyone's bag you can just look at their eyes.

Mailbox wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:40 am Why is it so important that crew can kill cult before the fight gets interesting? if the cult don't have red eyes and are discovered they are going to get floored and if everyone is aware that random searcher are allowed every other antag on the station is also fucked. There are many other things you can do that isn't just finding and killing cultist in order to prevent cultist from "spiraling out of control".

cult already have a built in system so you don't have to check everyone's bag you can just look at their eyes.

Because it's very difficult for Security to handle a cult that's already progressed that far. There's not really a step between "roundstart cult" and "too much to handle without bloodshed".

If the Cult is outed in the first five minutes, stash your cult shit somewhere hidden, why would you walk around with it knowing that people are looking for you?

Skill Issue tbh

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:33 am If the Cult is outed in the first five minutes, stash your cult shit somewhere hidden, why would you walk around with it knowing that people are looking for you?

Skill Issue tbh

I think a lot of players feel like if they get outed early, the jig is up and they're kinda screwed. Which, to be fair, OP's situation is not helping, but again - that's more because of how feast or famine Cult is in general on the balance spectrum, not due to any specific player behaviors.

I feel like you should be hiding your shit in any situation where you're not actively doing cult stuff that'd get you a holy water detox plan, but that's just me being paranoid.

Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 4:37 am

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:33 am If the Cult is outed in the first five minutes, stash your cult shit somewhere hidden, why would you walk around with it knowing that people are looking for you?

Skill Issue tbh

I think a lot of players feel like if they get outed early, the jig is up and they're kinda screwed. Which, to be fair, OP's situation is not helping, but again - that's more because of how feast or famine Cult is in general on the balance spectrum, not due to any specific player behaviors.

I feel like you should be hiding your shit in any situation where you're not actively doing cult stuff that'd get you a holy water detox plan, but that's just me being paranoid.

You're definitely not wrong, and I agree with you on the point about how Cult is either "Stomp them out with no mercy or you have already lost".

But I have seen cults come back before. Mindshields aren't going to stop people (other than pissing the player off because people don't like to be simple mobs).

But definitely yes, hide your stuff even if the cult ISN'T revealed. You don't want to be the one getting the cult revealed because someone tried to use your medi-pen on you, or god forbid you mis-clicked while grabbing something from your bag.

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:33 am If the Cult is outed in the first five minutes, stash your cult shit somewhere hidden, why would you walk around with it knowing that people are looking for you?

Skill Issue tbh

I imagine one concern is that random searches will also catch antagonists entirely unrelated to the cult?


But yeah skill issue regardless.

NoxVS wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 10:21 am

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:33 am If the Cult is outed in the first five minutes, stash your cult shit somewhere hidden, why would you walk around with it knowing that people are looking for you?

Skill Issue tbh

I imagine one concern is that random searches will also catch antagonists entirely unrelated to the cult?


But yeah skill issue regardless.

If you know that there is an active cult, you can probably expect searches.

Skill Issue remains.

but non-antagonists are not allowed to pre-emptively search for, hinder or otherwise seek conflict with antagonists without reasonable prior cause.

seems like a confirmed cult makes it probable cause.

Similar to arrests, security should have at least a probable cause for bagchecking someone, though red eye checks are always fine. You should be able to tell someone why you're bagchecking them (you have red eyes, you're covered in blood, you were in maint far from your department) and have some general probable cause. If all else fails, follow the station alerts.
I'm pretty sure that's already how it's generally enforced so no real change?
Fikou, Cheshify, TBM: +1