/tg/Station 13

Alright, as recent unnamed events that can not be said again have shown. The enforcement on what slurs are allowed and what aren’t is massively arbitrary. I say let admins say fuck and be consistent and ban all slur usage independent of context. There is no reasonable context outside of being a racist to call another person the N slur.

this is a noble cause but i'm fairly sure rule 11 is mso's domain and the headmins can't really make substantial changes to the scope of its enforcement without a discussion with the big man himself

i think rule 11 was a bad idea in the first place (anything it's meant to cover is already covered by rule 1) and the admins who are saying you can't be racist against white people are fucking dentskulls, but the cracker ban was extra fucking dumb. it's taken the rule that's meant to be exercised with common sense to actually expunge people the obnoxious edgelords and actual racists to banning over words themselves. regardless of your stance towards it, the fact that admins aren't just failing to understand the rule as it's written, but enforcing the direct opposite of it, is something that should be taken up with them, instead of modifying the rules to accommodate their misconduct.

MSO explicitly will not let us forbid people from using certain words. We have to ban based on whether or not the context those words are used in is bigoted.

The Wrench wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:59 pm The enforcement on what slurs are allowed and what aren't is massively arbitrary.

I would argue that it is not. People are not banned in general for saying slurs, but they are banned if they call someone else a slur.

E:

8bot wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:20 pm ... and the admins who are saying you can't be racist against white people are fucking dentskulls, but the cracker ban was extra fucking dumb.

This isn't relevant to the discussion. Regardless of anyone's opinion on racism against specific groups, the rules explicitly state that bigotry against any group is against the rules. Admin opinion on the matter is irrelevant.

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:21 pm This isn't relevant to the discussion. Regardless of anyone's opinion on racism against specific groups, the rules explicitly state that bigotry against any group is against the rules. Admin opinion on the matter is irrelevant.

I'd say it's relevant, because even though I disagree with the stance itself, I do agree that punishing someone for calling another person a cracker is stupid and an example of how Rule 11 is being mishandled - admin opinion is, and always will be relevant to discussions surrounding rules, due to rules being enforced at their discretion.


As for the discussion itself, this is a massive massive no. Earlier posts stated the obvious, that it goes against what MSO very transparently set out when the rule was introduced, and as I already stated, OP's suggestion is quite literally altering the rules to accommodate admins' poor interpretation of them. That's the exact opposite of what should be done in a scenario like this. An admin should be held accountable when they don't enforce a rule properly and made to correct their behavior.

I believe the rule should be changed to be more consistent instead of arbitrary. Either all slurs are okay or they aren’t, we can’t filter in-cel and then leave “Nigger” alone. It’s not right. Ban them all

The Wrench wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 1:34 am I believe the rule should be changed to be more consistent instead of arbitrary. Either all slurs are okay or they aren’t, we can’t filter in-cel and then leave “Nigger” alone. It’s not right. Ban them all

It's only filtered on the forums, not in-game. Forum rules and in-game rules are different.

The Wrench wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 1:34 am I believe the rule should be changed to be more consistent instead of arbitrary. Either all slurs are okay or they aren’t, we can’t filter in-cel and then leave “Nigger” alone. It’s not right. Ban them all

Are you willing to write out a list specifying all of them?

I mean if that's what it takes, sure. We could always ask for the Goonmin's master list of banned slurs and start from there though. I just want us to be consistent with what we do here.

The Wrench wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 4:50 am I mean if that's what it takes, sure. We could always ask for the Goonmin's master list of banned slurs and start from there though. I just want us to be consistent with what we do here.

How are you going to arbitrate the list?

The Wrench wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 4:50 am I mean if that's what it takes, sure. We could always ask for the Goonmin's master list of banned slurs and start from there though. I just want us to be consistent with what we do here.

1) This is an exercise in futility because the host literally will not let us do this.
2) "Bitch" is on that list. It is not a good example.

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 6:13 am 1) This is an exercise in futility because the host literally will not let us do this.

/thread

Not sure the point of discussing this if nothing can come out of it.

What the headmins do or do not want does not matter here. We can only act within the boundaries MSO sets. We have the expression of bigotry banned, and dogwhistles can be handled on a case by case basis. I encourage people not to use slurs period, but cannot take administrative or headministrative action to ban them outright.

Even in the case of a full slur ban, there would be situations where their usage would need to be allowed. Imagine saying "Joe called me a f - - - - -!" And getting banned, discussing your favourite Kanye West song about gentlemen in Paris, or any other example where slur usage couldn't offend or be used to insult someone.

TLDR: it's tricky. While banning slurs is a good call, we work in MSO's realm and the situation is more nuanced.