/tg/Station 13

Apropos of the current appeal and peanut thread:

Roleplay Rule 10 wrote: The administrative team collectively have the discretionary power to request that players, or the server collectively (in the case of mass spam of the same high impact strategies such as plasmafloods) find new gimmicks or make changes to their playstyles in the name of keeping experiences fresh for the server.

Seems to already be implied on LRP via this policy ruling:

Cheshify wrote: If you're doing the same thing round after round and people start to complain about it, maybe it's time to change things up. Admins can possibly ask people to try different tactics if it's getting boring.

Huh, this is a roleplay rule? I was almost sure it was a global one.

And it really SHOULD be, this isn't a roleplay rule that is gonna ruin LRP's sense of freedom to do whatever or whatnot, it's just to stop annoying and repeated strategies.

I kind of feel like this should just be part of rule 1, if it needs to be clarified.

My concern is, to a casual player reading the rules, seeing something listed as a "roleplay rule" somewhat implies that it is not a rule on the LRP servers, ya feel?

PapaMichael wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 5:15 pm My concern is, to a casual player reading the rules, seeing something listed as a "roleplay rule" somewhat implies that it is not a rule on the LRP servers, ya feel?

When it kinda is, but it's not worded.

I totally get you, this should really just be global.

We could reword this as either a corollary of rule 4 or a rule 1 precedent. Possibly both, since this would apply to all players, not just antags.

The issue is that there's no way to do this and it not have to somehow directly relate to rule 4, since players would go "rule 4 says I can do whatever I want".

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 6:46 pm We could reword this as either a corollary of rule 4 or a rule 1 precedent. Possibly both, since this would apply to all players, not just antags.

The issue is that there's no way to do this and it not have to somehow directly relate to rule 4, since players would go "rule 4 says I can do whatever I want".

In my (naïve, player, can't even see notes) experience, it seems like RPR 10 is brought out to smack down non-antag gimmicks moreso than antag gimmicks anyway (the fact that you need to roll antag to do the antag gimmick itself limits how repetitive it can be, while non-antags can do the same. exact. thing. for. thirty. eight. rounds. in. a. row. to the entire server's aggravation).

PapaMichael wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 6:57 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 6:46 pm We could reword this as either a corollary of rule 4 or a rule 1 precedent. Possibly both, since this would apply to all players, not just antags.

The issue is that there's no way to do this and it not have to somehow directly relate to rule 4, since players would go "rule 4 says I can do whatever I want".

In my (naïve, player, can't even see notes) experience, it seems like RPR 10 is brought out to smack down non-antag gimmicks moreso than antag gimmicks anyway (the fact that you need to roll antag to do the antag gimmick itself limits how repetitive it can be, while non-antags can do the same. exact. thing. for. thirty. eight. rounds. in. a. row. to the entire server's aggravation).

I'll say this isn't the case. An example is that we had to ask a player multiple times to stop using the hand teleporter to throw people into chasms as changeling. We do it way, way more often to antags than non-antags because you can just get up to a lot more disruptive fuckshit as an antag.

You could probbably just add "Admins may instruct players to stop using overplayed/spammed gimmicks or playstyles at their own discretion, even if no rules are being broken" to rule 7 or 6 or something, and leave the detailed explanation about how its toxic to the server in the rp rules.

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 6:46 pm We could reword this as either a corollary of rule 4 or a rule 1 precedent. Possibly both, since this would apply to all players, not just antags.

The issue is that there's no way to do this and it not have to somehow directly relate to rule 4, since players would go "rule 4 says I can do whatever I want".

I think rule 1 would do the trick, honestly. So long as we get it somewhere in the rules though I'm happy.

RR 10 is mostly a louder version of the unwritten rule that is applied across all servers. Rule 4 has already been reworded such that it isn't totally unrestricted; it has to still follow the major 'no exceptions' rules like metacomms and rule 8. I can't imagine Rule 6 is one they are allowed to ignore, and it would be a good idea to place it in the precedents for that rule.

I do wonder if anyone has argued that Rule 4 protects antags from Rule 6.

A version of RPR10 is already in rule 0. I think it's fine keeping RPR10 in the roleplay rules, because the rule 0 variation already covers all the cases we'd want to cover in LRP.

Rule 0 should only be invoked by admins when it is in the best interests of the server.
Admins have intervened before and will do so again in situations where a player, regardless of antag status:

has repeatedly delayed round-end by recalling the shuttle when most other players are dead or want to leave
has habitually used the same strategies to cause mass death or destruction (i.e. bombs, hyper-optimized viruses, etc.) to the detriment of the rest of the server's experience

Rule 1 covers situations where players follow the same strategy in a play-2-win manner and who barely do any roleplay in getting the things they want

Breaking into staffed departments to take resources, or hoarding station supplies with little IC reasoning can be harmful to the experience of other players. Communicate first if you desire something that you do not have access to. Players may defend their workplaces from trespassers who damage or steal property with relaxed escalation.

This is primarily a roleplay game, so it can be justified that you are harming the experience if you are breaking into highly secure places of a round without good reason because your character would have no reason to do that. Generally, if you want to break into somewhere, make sure you have a valid IC reason to do so if you don't want to get bwoinked by the admins for your behaviour. The bar is generally lower on LRP than it would be on MRP because of the lack of roleplay rules, but you can still get bwoinked for it if what you're doing truly has very little justification.

The only reason we don't bwoink more often for it is because:
1. The player may have already been dealt with by the people who staff the department
2. No one ahelps it because no one is around to see it, so they keep getting away with it.
3. If it's not done early enough into a round, they may have a valid justification to their actions which would require asking them about it. I don't usually interrupt people's gameplay if no one has ahelped about their actions.

Like I said, the bar is low, so if you're fetching stuff because of an IC gimmick or construction you are preparing for, that will usually get you a pass OOC even if you don't get a pass IC (you may still be arrested by security and attacked by people you are stealing from). And no, powergaming is not really a valid IC gimmick unless you're the Captain or a secoff, because technically these guys have to deal with antags, so we don't tend to care that much because antags usually powergame just as hard as the secoffs.

I think it would be nice to have it out of rule 0 and into the main list personally.

We're happy with how the current rules are set up, no interest in changing anything. Rule 0 precedent already covers this well we feel.