/tg/Station 13

A certain coder made a certain few people lizards for a few rounds when they prayed for it, first time one looted the armory and acted like a shit while the rest were mostly fine, the next the same lizard ended up killing the warden apparently.

They aren't admins, they aren't expected to administrate, why are they allowed to fuck the round up?

Some coders have admin powers purely so they can access the debuging commands in game for testing and bug hunting, in theory they're not meant to use their admin powers for anything (maybe with the exception if a admin gives the go ahead for them to do something).
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That was the players messing the round up by abusing their lizard privileges. No true lizardperson would do those things.

If you see someone break into the armory unless theres some kind of emergency like blob where its fucking wholesale everybody grabbin guns KILL THEM, because they now have access to a bunch of guns and they know you want to stop them.

Coders doing events is a bit shady but lizards don't actually have any special powers, a coder turning someone into a lizard shouldn't happen but also doesn't count as assisting them in any way in any griefing they may have done.
Like giving someone something that is literally a character generation button isn't a grievous offence.

Callan. Honestly, this thread shouldn't even exist. It should be a ban request/requests for the griefing players. Since its not like the coder told them: "Al right, you can go ahead and grief because you are lizardmen." Instead they decided to be griefers.

So why didn't these people just choose to start as a lizard?

Jacquerel wrote:Coders doing events is a bit shady but lizards don't actually have any special powers

Whenever I see "feral lizards" they have ventcrawl as well.

Yeah if this is what I'm thinking of, the lizards could crawl through vents, which should have been mentioned in the OP

They all burn the same.

How the actual fuck does a coder making someone a lizard correlate to them looting the armory?

Lock this plz

Vekter wrote:How the actual fuck does a coder making someone a lizard correlate to them looting the armory?

Lock this plz

Wow Vekter its almost like a coder gave a player special powers (???why is this allowed???) and they abused them

And that has brought up the question if coders should be allowed to do things like this

Before everyone gets throughly confused.

This wasn't a standard Lizardperson we're talking about, its a feral lizard with vent crawling abilities.

Coders have access to admin commands so they can test out new concepts and ideas with the community to see how players deal with things/use/abuse when they're given new tools/play mechanics. Unfortunately sometimes people don't do what the coder expects and the choose to abuse it and fuck it up for everyone else. These seems like one of those situations.

Obviously testing also happens on non public servers and mechanics are tried away from players, but some stuff really needs to be thrown into the game to see how its used.

This isn't testing for a feature though its purely an admin event

Unless this is something I don't know about?

They even had antag objects of: Be a lizard.

Specific things aside, it seems bad in principal for coders to have admin buttons. They can test on private servers or talk to admins.

PAS wrote::words:

Oh well don't I look fucking stupid

Coders aren't supposed to slap buttons unless they get an admin to approve it.

If they're giving people ventcrawl then that definitely looks like an abuse of priviliges

callanrockslol wrote:A certain coder made a certain few people lizards for a few rounds when they prayed for it, first time one looted the armory and acted like a shit while the rest were mostly fine, the next the same lizard ended up killing the warden apparently.

I'm pretty sure I was that warden, and the one in that round didn't actually attack anyone to my knowledge, it was in custody almost the entire time. The HoS had given out energy guns before I arrived, though I don't know about the round before that. I can vouch for the fact that it made that round interesting, despite distracting me from doing warden things. I only killed myself after the round actually ended.

Ventcrawl is probably a bit much for a coder to test on the server though, I can see that being abused easily. Still, it's always refreshing to see new things just being thrown around randomly, it makes rounds pretty memorable.

Please don't ask any more questions about the warden round. Nothing else happened. Nope.

Scones wrote:This isn't testing for a feature though its purely an admin event

Unless this is something I don't know about?

Sorry I was being more general.

Vekter wrote: Coders aren't supposed to slap buttons unless they get an admin to approve it.

This is obviously a "someone doing something stupid" situation. As far as I'm aware Cheri had words with the person in question.

lumipharon wrote:They even had antag objects of: Be a lizard.

This antaging and such shouldn't be happening with out permissions, and then said admin takes responsibility like they would an admin candidate/trail

firecage wrote:Callan. Honestly, this thread shouldn't even exist. It should be a ban request/requests for the griefing players. Since its not like the coder told them: "Al right, you can go ahead and grief because you are lizardmen." Instead they decided to be griefers.

Ah the coderbus defense force has arrived good to see.


Anyway, this has been argued to death before and it'll be argued to death if headmins don't put a word on it.

Do you or do you not want to let coders have admin powers? If not, delete their +fun+ priviliges, if you do, let it be as it is. Simple as that.

ColonicAcid wrote:

firecage wrote:Callan. Honestly, this thread shouldn't even exist. It should be a ban request/requests for the griefing players. Since its not like the coder told them: "Al right, you can go ahead and grief because you are lizardmen." Instead they decided to be griefers.

Ah the coderbus defense force has arrived good to see.

Callan did a shit job of specifying and made everyone think he meant lizards (the humanoid race) not lizard men (the crazy reskinked aliens).

But hey, I get you have to make snark every post or you'll die so nbd

you're goddamn right I have to be snarky.
Snarky and sasssy that's me.

I was on for these rounds... if any admin did it it would just be perfectly fine; unless they gave these powers to themselves or friends or intentionally fucked up the round I do not really see the problem.

I understand some people want to draw a hard line against what coders can do, but this is a pretty silly thing to worry about.

Void Slayer wrote:I was on for these rounds... if any admin did it it would just be perfectly fine; unless they gave these powers to themselves or friends or intentionally fucked up the round I do not really see the problem.

I understand some people want to draw a hard line against what coders can do, but this is a pretty silly thing to worry about.

It's an issue because maintainers aren't given admin privileges to make events and spawn a bunch of ventcrawling antags, they have it to test features / do live tests for bugs

This sounds more like an admin complaint than a policy discussion.

If this is the round I think it is, the lizard only attacked in retaliation because the crew kept trying beat the shit out of it, to the point where security was trying to stun+laser it for whatever reason. As far as I'm aware, it only ended up raiding the armory and killing the warden AFTER the warden nearly lasered it to death. All it really did before that was run around and screee at people before scrambling back into vents.

We've time and time again said that you can't escalate your way into the Armory.

Did any of you even bother to look to see who did it?

Yes, we know who did it.

and?

This was briefly discussed with cheridan on the 30th and he said he would talk to WJ about it.

Cheridan also said this "I've discussed this matter with SoS before: the extent of what Coders could do with their rank and so forth. He said it was perfectly fine for them to do events and such within the limits of normal admins, however I also have an expectation of them that they should be using that access to support their coding duties and/or provide a service; such as handling bug or code-related ahelps, investigate or fix bugs during runtime if possible, panhandle for feedback of upcoming features in dsay, etc. instead of goofing off. Just like an admin is expected to handle game-related ahelps instead of only goofing off."

So unless the current head admins want to step in to change this then coders will just keep doing things like this I guess?

works for me

Meh I have a particular personal gripe over the coder event thing. I've had some shitty experiences and it's really frustrating.

There was an issue with Remie a while back that we resolved by telling them not to run events for a few weeks except with an actual gameadmin supervising.

I'll talk to WJ about that as well. It seems a decent solution, though it's slightly different as WJ was actually a trialmin or admin or something. Or still is? I have no fucking clue to be honest.

As someone with coder buttons, I don't press them unless an admin requests something to be pressed, or I'm actively investigating something weird going on.

I didn't go through the admin process, and don't feel like anyone who didn't or isn't held to those responsibilities should be hitting buttons to spice up the round. Of course, this leads to my endless frustration when nothing is fucking going on in the round, and I have the power, but not the will, to do something about it, so I cry inside while being bored to tears.

I do try to answer any Ahelps that question game mechanics, or ask if something was weird, code wise.

I'd like to clarify a few things here, and also first apologize.

The lizard gimmick I did was what it was: a gimmick. I frequently asked admins if I could make these and other events, and otherwise try and avoid pushing any buttons. These lizards were antags tasked with ventcrawling around the station and go in "screee" while not harming anyone. The antaf status was purely to allow them to retaliate in self defense if they were attacked, and they were frequently hunted without provocation by security first. I'll admit that a couple of players thought that "harmlessly go screee at people" = "free murderboner license", but I talked to them and put a stop to that, though they may have attacked some people before I could respond.

I'm sorry of I did any damage, but if it's any consolation I've stopped running this gimmick.

I'd also like to point out that the majority of what I do with my coder powers is bug testing stuff on the thunderdome, and it has helped find and confirm a lot of bugs that way.