/tg/Station 13

I find it kinda wierd that casting mindswap or similar spells to dick over humans as an asimov borg is not against its laws.
Also, many, many times I've ordered borgs to not mindswap me and they just completely ignore it. This is probably case by case but it doesn't seem like admins hear my cries when I actually get a chance to order a borg not to mindswap me, ect, ect
I ded pls ban.

how does a borg cast spells?

same way anyone else does

(the borg would probably have to be Staff of Changed)

at which point they're no longer a borg right?

oranges. He means a human having mindswap being SoC's into a borg. Or alternatively, someone with mindswap mindswapping the AI or borg. Which I do agree with the OP with, if they are Asimov, they actually shouldn't be able to mindswap into a human again, since they are removing said humans humanity.

I was an AI durning a dualAI wiz round, and wiz swapped into the other AI. Apparently he couldn't do anything, and was stuck in some sort of a stun, though that might have been fixed since.

I don't think mindswap removes someone's humanity, the human mob stays human it's not like it turns into a lizard and it's loose enough for multiple interpretations given how loose AI laws normally are taken.

Only issue might be asimovs law 2'd to not use mindswap but that's more of a traditional silicon issue

If you know that the spell makes you a human and it makes them what you are [borg], how is that not 'removing someone's humanity'? Wouldn't it be the EXACT same as forceborging?

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:If you know that the spell makes you a human and it makes them what you are [borg], how is that not 'removing someone's humanity'? Wouldn't it be the EXACT same as forceborging?

force boring kills the human. Mind swap simply swaps the minds, it's the body that makes them human, not the *soul*.

TechnoAlchemist wrote:

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:If you know that the spell makes you a human and it makes them what you are [borg], how is that not 'removing someone's humanity'? Wouldn't it be the EXACT same as forceborging?

force boring kills the human. Mind swap simply swaps the minds, it's the body that makes them human, not the *soul*.

Yeah, so the human is now no longer human, but a borg. Dehumaning someone is considered harm. QED mindswapping into a human as a borg is harm.

That human body is still a living human body though. It doesn't hurt the body at all and it doesn't de-human the body.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:

TechnoAlchemist wrote:

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:If you know that the spell makes you a human and it makes them what you are [borg], how is that not 'removing someone's humanity'? Wouldn't it be the EXACT same as forceborging?

force boring kills the human. Mind swap simply swaps the minds, it's the body that makes them human, not the *soul*.

Yeah, so the human is now no longer human, but a borg. Dehumaning someone is considered harm. QED mindswapping into a human as a borg is harm.

No it isn't, harming someone is harm, swapping their minds doesn't cause harm, the human is still alive just controlled by someone else.

Mindswapping disorients a human making it more probable they will come to harm in the chaotic environment the station undoubtedly is at this point. Law 1, no can do, :^)

Nah it doesn't. You take control of the human, and you know exactly what's going to happen. The cyborg will be controlled by someone disoriented, but that's fine, he's got his laws.

No. You are literally removing someone elses humanity and making yourself human. It should really not be allowed.

Silicon laws don't give a shit about the soul.

They are concerned with the human.

What makes you human? It's the nature of your biological, physical, body. What is human harm? Delivering damage or long term pain or death to that body.

Why do silicons care about forced borging? Because it kills that body. Why do silicons care about making someone into a flyperson? Because it totally mutates that body. Why do silicons care about mindswap? They shouldn't, because it does nothing to the human. It changes the soul, but who gives a shit? Not the asimov silicon.

Does mindswapping cause any BRUTE, BURN, TOX, OXY, BRAIN, or CLONE damage to the parties involved?

If not, it's not harm.

Murdering a borg or a person that used to be a human (borged human, monkey'd human etc) is fine by asimov, so this is also perfectly ok.
The body defines the human, not the mind.

On thing to note though, if you know you will, or may cause human harm after you mindswap into a meatsuit, that would be a law 1 reason to not do it.
IE: Dickhead X is a dick to you as borg, but you don't beat him to a pulp because asimov. It would be ok to mindswap dickhead X and murder him when he's a borg, since no human harm would technically occur, but it would not be ok to mindswap random guy Y, for the purpose of beating dickhead X to a bloody pulp, because law 1 future harm.

We talked about this and decided it's not harm.