/tg/Station 13

Had a round today where I actually cooperated with another traitor. We had a secret autolathe, revolver+silenced stetchkin. We talked over syndie channel and worked closely together to kill anyone in our vicinity. We never went south of the bar or north of the dorms, we just kept a tight area on lockdown.

After I had about 4 kills, I get a lovely ERT DISPATCHED.

CAPTAIN, HOS, AND WARDEN WERE ALL ALIVE. MY ENTIRE ARSENAL WAS ONE SILENCED STETCHKIN WITH ONE MAG

Of course the ERT Commander has fucking thermals so they find us in our hideout and surround the place with the 5 ERT + Captain and a few other armed shitters surround the place, my partner was already dead to an assistant with a C20R at that point. Just stupid to punish traitors for teaming up and actually being competent.

Why the fuck would I ever want to try that again if I know the admins are just going to bring down the hammer as soon as someone stubs their toe. Moreover, why the fuck would you send in an ERT when the command staff was still intact and the three most important security figures on station were all alive and capable of trying to contain or eliminate the threat? They didn't even swipe for red alert, just HALP ADMINS WE HAVE VASTLY MORE MEN AND FIREPOWER BUT THEY STILL MIGHT BEAT US, SEND ERT PLZ.

Two traitors is the most rare, magical, and beautiful thing this game can produce, why would the admins feel the need to intervene and punish us for being slightly robust?

Edit: Lollerderby dispatched another ERT the very next round, a traitor round, with the station in one piece and a majority of the crew alive. Jesus fucking christ fuck off with that shit.

Edit Edit: Lol the ERT didn't even get an announcement, just silently showed up, I was literally the only person even talking in dead chat and yet ERT ahoy get fucked antags who needs security when you've got Adminbus on the case.

Edit Edit Edit: Every traitor was killed during the 2nd round, good jahb Admincurity.

I understand your pain.

But see it as a compliment. Ghosts where that fucking salty they cried and cried untill the admins gave in to send a 5 man thermals wielding squad after you.

That doesn't happen to many people.

There were a lot of traitors that round, and at least 10 people had died from what I could tell, maybe more. Murderbone isn't really well-liked so it makes sense admins would try and punish it?

How do you only have one gun after killing 10 people anyway? nobody was really guarding brig (I was trying to raid it when you killed me, jackass), and I at least was saving up batons and tasers I found.

One revolver isn't that robust, you know.

Bruce_Banner wrote:I understand your pain.

But see it as a compliment. Ghosts where that fucking salty they cried and cried untill the admins gave in to send a 5 man thermals wielding squad after you.

That doesn't happen to many people.

Its complimentary in the same way as when sec hunts you down first for implantation during Rev, or when a Malf AI kills you first. Youre like "oh that's funny but still pretty shitty".

If ERT had been sent after we had gotten more kills and picked off the cap/HOS, or if we had recalled, then sure I can see that justification. But it was pretty much "oh shit two traitors working together and they've already killed like 5 unarmed rando's and a sec officer, ERT GO GO GO".

@Chen

I wasn't even using revolver (one revolver is hella robust) my gimmick was going to be Stetchkin Silenced + Thermals for super stealthy murdertime. I got a key with my last 2 TC and teamed up but she had to use lights. Would've gotten a revolver too if I had know that. Also buy a key next time so we don't have to murder your ass.

Admin/Headmin didn't respond when I asked why the ERT was dispatched. But if the top 3 sec officials are still alive they either need to control the situation or fucking call the shuttle. Sending in an ERT because you failed to stop a couple traitors is absurd.

Yakumo_Chen wrote:There were a lot of traitors that round, and at least 10 people had died from what I could tell, maybe more. Murderbone isn't really well-liked so it makes sense admins would try and punish it?

How do you only have one gun after killing 10 people anyway? nobody was really guarding brig (I was trying to raid it when you killed me, jackass), and I at least was saving up batons and tasers I found.

One revolver isn't that robust, you know.

A single Revolver with a hacked autolathe on call is very powerful, since you can just spam out ammo from the lathe non stop thus giving you a large amount of ammo to use.

The main drawback to the Revolver is its high cost and low ammo, if you remove the ammo constraint it becomes very powerful.

There's a reason why long ago Nuke Ops were solely armed with Revolvers.

If you don't want to get dunked on then don't kill people. Try something else. Use your brain.

Zilenan91 wrote:If you don't want to get dunked on then don't kill people. Try something else. Use your brain.

You're right Zil, we all came to the consensus that murdering people as a traitor is bad and we should all just emag whatever locker has our objective and go braindead in an escape pod.

Oh wait, nobody wants that except you and the other Bay-wannabees. Everyone else enjoys having a station where people actually die sometimes.

Punishing that shit with an ERT is just pathetic.

You're getting unreasonably angry over having your traitor round ended. If you truly don't realize what I'm trying to say and you're instead just trying to hurt me in some way then I'll just stop talking.

Depends on what kind of ERT is being called in.

If its the high alert guys with Pulse Rifles and similar, against two traitors that have barely touched the command or security staff, then I would say that's overkill.

Prehaps looking to only give the Commander a set of thermals if its a high alert call in, so low level alerts won't send in the thermal sniffing squad.

But I agree with Oldman in that it seems bad form to send in a ERT to hunt down two Traitors when the people who are meant to stop them, being security, are all still alive.

Silenced stechkin pistol isn't quite a revolver while surprising with the suppressor it deals only 30 damage to a revolver's 70 so oldman was sorta giving himself a handicap since his boom boom revolver partner would draw a ton of attention anyway.

Incomptinence wrote:Silenced stechkin pistol isn't quite a revolver while surprising with the suppressor it deals only 30 damage to a revolver's 70 so oldman was sorta giving himself a handicap since his boom boom revolver partner would draw a ton of attention anyway.

Plus you have to manually reload the revolver, like pull out the ammo box and jam the bullets into the mag whereas the autolathe spits out revolver speedloaders ready to go.

We were hardly stomping the crew. I had been put within 10 damage of crit on like 4 occassions, same with my partner. She was dead by the time we even had the ERT show up. Plus fucking assistants and shit started coming out of the gateway with shields and c20r's and shit. The crew did NOT need a fucking ERT to deal with us.

The fact I had 10 people waiting to kill me in my own hideout is a sign that it was complete fucking overkill.

Edit: Lollerderby dispatched another ERT the very next round, a traitor round, with the station in one piece and a majority of the crew alive. Jesus fucking christ Lollerderby fuck off with that shit.

Edit Edit: Lol the ERT didn't even get an announcement, just silently showed up, I was literally the only person even talking in dead chat and yet ERT ahoy get fucked antags who needs security when you've got Headmin Lollerderby on the case.

I've sent several ERTs myself so I'm part of the problem, but a "fix everything" button in a game designed around things going terribly wrong has always seemed a bit out of place to me. SS13, as it stands now, exists to have things ruined.

Don't like that it rewards the people who died by letting them come back with all access to get revenge either.

Don't know what the rounds in question were like though so I guess I'm just rambling about dumb shit.

I was in the most recent round where a ERT was called in, being myself the ERT Commander.

I don't understand why the ERT was called in, while yes the command structure had fallen most of Security still seemed alive. The only thing we ERT did was call the evac shuttle and we ended up killing a swathe of Traitors who suddently could not finish their objectives since there was a ERT guarding everyone.

Also there was no announcement we showed up, we just waltzed in to everyone's surprise.

Kor wrote:I've sent several ERTs myself so I'm part of the problem, but a "fix everything" button in a game designed around things going terribly wrong has always seemed a bit out of place to me. SS13, as it stands now, exists to have things ruined.

Don't like that it rewards the people who died by letting them come back with all access to get revenge either.

Don't know what the rounds in question were like though so I guess I'm just rambling about dumb shit.

1st Round: Me and another traitor were doing pretty well on a murder spree but Captain, HoS, and Warden were all alive and hunting for us. We had been brought near death on multiple occasions and our gear wasn't anything special. We were just two traitors with guns, flesh, and blood. IMO having all 3 of the top security officials alive should negate any ERT request unless its extreme circumstances.

2nd Round: ERT called, no announcement, station intact, I'm literally the only person talking in deadchat to even comment on the ERT when they showed up. Both rounds they swept up the traitors and let the crew have their comfy ride out while traitors ate mass red-text.

ERTs would be fine as a gameplay element if Traitors could call in something similar. Now I'm not saying Nuke Ops, but if traitors had the same level of escalation from outside forces as NT did they'd feel much less cheap. The same with other, outside forces too. This idea is more along the lines of something that would be implemented with datum antags, now that I'm thinking about it, because it'd be a massive TDM every round rather than a free for all datum antags would create.

Been playing a lot of Archangel recently, and their version of traitors can summon, at round start, the equivalent of 5 members of a Death Squad in the form of Chaos Space Marines, and loyalists can also do the same. Adds a nice bit of escalation to the round, but to compensate traitors there are much less deadly and more rule restricted.

Zilenan91 wrote:You're getting unreasonably angry over having your traitor round ended. If you truly don't realize what I'm trying to say and you're instead just trying to hurt me in some way then I'll just stop talking.

You've completely ignored his point and jumped to "you're mad!!" in a single post.

What's described in the OP is a shitty injustice. Antagonists driving the round in an intimidating way, instead of running some shitty gimmick and getting dunked five minutes in? Paranoia? In my SS13? HAHA FUCK THAT, SEND IN LE ERT!

That's absolute shit. Here we're trying to bring back some of the more intimidating aspects of the game, and as soon as a traitor begins to put that in action in-game an admin cuts them short. To be crass, that's fucking bullshit.

I dunno why you're blaming me I didn't send shit.

This is why when people whine "Help A man in madagascar is coughing send an ERT" on the command console, I just spawn a tonne of gibs on the transit shuttle, blow up the transit console, and tell them their ERT is here.

Fight it yourself, dickweebs.

As usual, Zilenan has no fucking clue what he's talking about, but that's beside the point. If the station isn't overtaken by xenomorphs/spiders/murderboning antags (but only if they keep recalling the shuttle), there is no need for ERT or deathsquad. It's as simple as that.

InsaneHyena wrote:(but only if they keep recalling the shuttle),

That's when I just spawn 30 spiders on the console itself and wait for him to come back to try recalling it.

Gonna have to work for that murderbone.

I was the other traitor in this scenario, there's some validation to his complaint but eeeh.

By time ERT was called, a third traitor that was talking over syndicate channel had released the tesla engine and started plasma fires in the main halls. Most heads WERE alive at this point, but apparently someone other than us kept recalling or something equally stupid.

I'm not saying oldman's complaint is valid (i've seen similar shit happen before with ERT being called for fuck-all reasons), but the fact he left out the whole "station is on fire and has a giant ball of electric death roaming it" is meh.

lollerderby wrote:I dunno why you're blaming me I didn't send shit.

I did an Adminwho and it was you and TechnoAlch, and Techno was helping me check the figures on my bombs (and is usually the type of person to respond if I started whining about an ERT).

I figured at the very at least you authorized it. I dunno how adminbus operates but I doubt that someone would drop an ERT like that without running it by you. When you're the only other active admin on and a headmin.

I took your name off the OP though, if you had responded to my ahelps asking about it then we wouldn't be having any of this confusion.

@MMM

First time I've heard Tesla got loose, never saw any sign of it ourselves. Plasma fire was limited to escape bay, never saw any signs of plasma or fire to the west of Chapel (it was inconvenient as fuck for us too since bar/dorms was our only route of attack and it got predictable).

If someone did recall (and I dont know who did, the shuttle timer went past of no return without the ERT's help) it was only once and probably the cap/HoS themselves. If there are -multiple- recall issues then I could see justifying a small limited-scope ERT to look into it, with explicit orders only to focus on keeping the shuttle called... whoever sent our ERT and whatever their orders, they went straight to validhunt mode. Sounds like the 2nd ERT wasn't given direction at all.

In 2011, the deathsquad was called on Dante Smith when he was killing everyone with an LMG.
Granted I think an admin gave it to him, but stuff being called because of killing isn't new.

Actually Oldman it was us the ERT that got the shuttle called and allowed it to remain.

I was the Commander, and since no one in the command staff sans some crackpot Chief Engineer was responding I made a executive decision to call the evacuation and then send the ERT off to hunt down a loose morph and secure the escape wing.

tl;dr Don't drop the anvil on the antag unless they've managed to cuck basically everyone and refuse to let the round end

The crew should have a fair good chance of stopping the antags.

It's the equilivant of sending in the ERT when the Nuke Ops are about to breach their way into the Captain's toilet where he's hiding. While the Ops have made some damage they've yet to hit their peak, nor have the crew fully responded to the threat.

Sending in an ERT in a nuke-op round (sans min-pop war declaration) shouldn't be allowed.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Sending in an ERT in a nuke-op round (sans min-pop war declaration) shouldn't be allowed.

It was just a example, not meant as something that occurs.

I think ERT call in's should be up to the admins judgement, but they should know exactly what's going on during the round and only send the ERT in when its clear the station's security forces/medical staff/engineering teams and command staff are either dead or otherwise incapable of halting the spreading chaos and destruction (Depending on the nature of the chaos, either antag destruction(sec) failing station infrastructure(eng) or a viral outbreak(med)). If a admin does not have a grasp of the situation they should just not send in the ERT.

Admins trying to create some interesting conflict IC to make murderbone #964834 interesting.

DrPillzRedux wrote:Admins trying to create some interesting conflict IC to make murderbone #964834 interesting.

Two traitors working together, sharing an autolathe, covering each other, healing each other, and working as a single unified force is the single rarest event in this game. I can count on my hands how many times I've seen it happen.

Sending a thermal-equipped traitor-killer force backed up by the captain/security/lynch-mob-equipped-with-nukeop-gear-from-shitty-away-missions didn't make anything interesting, it cut the conflict down before its climax and made sure that I'm less likely to try anything other than shitty gimmicks in the future.

I mean a single fucking assistant killed my partner and had me within an inch of death, man the fuck up and stop sending in ERT's to compensate for the crew's failures.

Saegrimr wrote:

InsaneHyena wrote:(but only if they keep recalling the shuttle),

That's when I just spawn 30 spiders on the console itself and wait for him to come back to try recalling it.

Gonna have to work for that murderbone.

You should try a kick mine/plasmamine under the chair in front of it.

Oldman Robustin wrote:

DrPillzRedux wrote:Admins trying to create some interesting conflict IC to make murderbone #964834 interesting.

Two traitors working together, sharing an autolathe, covering each other, healing each other, and working as a single unified force is the single rarest event in this game. I can count on my hands how many times I've seen it happen.

It's also boring

oranges wrote:

Oldman Robustin wrote:

DrPillzRedux wrote:Admins trying to create some interesting conflict IC to make murderbone #964834 interesting.

Two traitors working together, sharing an autolathe, covering each other, healing each other, and working as a single unified force is the single rarest event in this game. I can count on my hands how many times I've seen it happen.

It's also boring

Its really, really not boring. We were getting in constant gunfights, we didn't have any cheese tactics besides working together, we didn't invade departments and murder people minding their own business, it was a very entertaining round all in all compared to almost any other form of murderbone (lube lings, sing/tesla release, plasma firestorm, almost anything involving a rogue AI).

Shad0vvs wrote:In 2011, the deathsquad was called on Dante Smith when he was killing everyone with an LMG.
Granted I think an admin gave it to him, but stuff being called because of killing isn't new.

The difference being that Dante killing everyone with an adminspawn gun is generally a round ending situation while two traitors with 4 kills between them and sec is still alive also 10 assistants armed to the teeth from an away mission are after them as well isn't really to far out from the norm. Deathsquad also tended to be sent out much less than ERT is now because its generally a round ending situation to send out a 5 man team of people armed with guns that decently robust people can easily solo the entire crew with.

You call ERT when the station has gone to shit and what ever little crew is remaining are incapable of fighting back OR calling the shuttle (due to no ID or recalls etc).

Deathsquad is for when the station is has been reduced to a colony of xenos and 2 guys hiding in lockers/the badmins have facerolled buttons and the mess needs to be cleaned up.

Admins stop pressing button for poor reasons. ESPECIALLY if it's simply deadchat having a cry. Rewarding crying ghosts by respawning them with deadly weapons and objective to valid hunt the people who killed them is shit, unless it's some turbo nerd who's killed most of the crew and isn't letting the shuttle get called.

Why would you call a deathsquad for xenos? One guy with hulk can solo entire hives of them, its almost a guaranteed xeno slaughter if they get a riot shield.

Riot Shields do jack shit to Aliens. Shields blocking Xeno leaps was a bug that was removed so now you get a RNG to block a Xeno tackle.

If a Deathsquad Officer gets pounced on then its gg for them. While their armour is fantastic all the Xeno has to do is drag him away while keeping him stunned and get his friends to help cut him up.

if I can get away with spawning deathsquads, the round is at a point where I can get away with spawning carps var-edited into deathsquids that fire bolts of insta-gib with no cooldown so deathsquads dying to aliens is a moot point

Steelpoint wrote:Riot Shields do jack shit to Aliens. Shields blocking Xeno leaps was a bug that was removed so now you get a RNG to block a Xeno tackle.

If a Deathsquad Officer gets pounced on then its gg for them. While their armour is fantastic all the Xeno has to do is drag him away while keeping him stunned and get his friends to help cut him up.

Its for the acid or neurotoxin or whatever that spam ranged stuff is, xeno leap isn't a threat to a hulk.

So who actually spawned the ERT team

It is lost to history I suppose :^)

I had Kor or Shaps spawn an ERT on me once

To be fair, Kor spawned me his revamped Grey Tide and reactive illusion armor and it was still robust as hell

Couldn't help but feel absolute salt at running into them and just getting lol-tasered without any warning but oh well
That's the kind of thing an ERT should be sent in for, even if I was being completely carried by the gear as I am very unrobust normally

You too can help prevent potentially unwanted ERT-fires!

But how would I, a mere pleb player who owes everything I have to the true glory and order of the ADMIN Administration and its human-alien hybrids, possibly do this, HBL?

Speak up when you see one, post-round or something, in a reasonable way. Adminhelp it. Join supportbus and mention it. Address it directly in OOC. If you phrase it more like feedback on an event and less like the opening to the Declaration of Independence, you will seriously get 6,000 percent more consideration. And if the admin in question brushes it off? Well then, other admins have seen it, and may speak up, talk about it in adminbus, get the headmins involved if we really can't agree, etc.

I mean, I love ERTs as much as possibly any admin, I'm always looking for a good reason to send some in. But that's kind of the key. The station needs to be so fucked that it's justifiable, like you need a casus beli of sorts.