/tg/Station 13

So, basing this off a previous round.

I normally roll assistant, or a job close to it. I like having no responsibilities, etc. This time, I decided I wanted to join up as a Janitor.

I gear up, grab my mop, my cart, fill it full of water and such and go to work. Putting signs down like a good janitor should.

This inevitably turns into people stealing my cart, pepperspraying me and going as far as arresting me and putting me in the brig for doing nothing more than my JOB.


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Why is this OKAY? Why is it okay for other players to dictate to the janitor how to play their game (USE SPACE CLEANER OR SOAP). Why can I not play the game that I want it to be played, instead of "powergaming" by using a cleaning method that does not cause slippage?

If the janitor role was intended to be played this way, why isn't he sent to the station with a tank full of "VASTLY SUPERIOR CLEANING POWER NANOTRASEN BRAND SPACE CLEANER" instead of his generic spessman brand water tank?

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This was brought up in deadchat, the results were as expected:
"get borged scrub, its better anyway"
"use space cleaner"
"don't fucking use water, its your own fault"

== It should not be okay to shit on another job slot because they choose to play the game in a way that you don't feel it should be played. It's not the other players choice to decide how the janitor plays and the shit is old and annoying, all it does is turn into a game of grief the janitor until they ragequit.

(also known as don't be a dick).

I also want to know why spacing the cart is allowed.

The whole point of the water-based mopping system is to create an interesting non-antagonist conflict within the round. The janitor player has to make the distinction between when using water is and isn't appropriate. A lot of the fun of playing it is slipping people up, in an inconvenient but ultimately harmless manner, and smugly pointing out the signs you've put down. Obviously, you can go too far, like slipping people who are fighting nuke ops, put the point is to balance on that line.

If you don't like the idea that janitors might be hurt for taking things too far, you can use space cleaner. By using water, you make a trade off that enhances the game. Space cleaner is limited, water is not. Other players should have a say in how you clean, because you're not the only person on the station that it affects, but that doesn't stop you from making your own choices. Do you complain that the clown is railroaded into his job of entertaining the crew a specific way, because if he annoys the wrong people he gets slammed into the brig? No. The janitor is the same, even if on the face of it the role seems more serious.

Having said that, individuals spacing the cart to fuck with the janitor is a dick move. I'm only talking about the station wide times when the janitor is either arrested or beaten to death for wetting one too many hallways.

Some asshole once spaced my cart when I was janitor, so I beat them to death for being a cuck. Got a note for it. If someone spaces the janitors cart for cleaning, they should be valid by the janitor.

It depends on what you're doing, if you're cleaning using water when there's a blob or nuke ops or some shit out then you're gonna get dunked on.

If someone decides that the best idea to solve their problem with slippery floors is to space the Janitor's cart then they should expect to soon be going after that cart as a corpse. Simple as that.

Jeb wrote:So, basing this off a previous round.

If you're basing this off of the nuke ops round where the ops had declared war a while back, then here is what I have to say:

1. The first time I took your cart, I eventually just left it with you since you so obviously wanted it back. I considered it a warning.

2. The second time was when I, in another completely unrelated circumstance, found you watering tiles again. This time I hid your cart, but you could have still easily found it (it was in northeast maint).

3. If it was a run-of-the-mill traitor round or a round where the antagonists are still quiet, I wouldn't have cared and left you alone. You were watering tiles in a nuke ops round where the ops had already openly declared war and hostile intent. At that point, watering tiles is essentially working against everyone else and does nothing but be a huge annoyance. Same deal for blob rounds: If there is a blob that has popped and is loud and you're watering tiles tripping the blob fighters, you're gonna get lynched.

4. If you still want to clean when an antagonist has declared open and hostile intent (nuke ops war, blob has popped, gang is dominating, etc), then just use space cleaner. IIRC you can mix some space cleaner into your cart and you can still mop without making tiles slippery.

tl;dr: You had a warning, and you shouldn't have been watering tiles when there's an active hostile antagonist event going on (nuke op war, gang domination, blob, etc)

edit:

Jeb wrote:If the janitor role was intended to be played this way, why isn't he sent to the station with a tank full of "VASTLY SUPERIOR CLEANING POWER NANOTRASEN BRAND SPACE CLEANER" instead of his generic spessman brand water tank?

He is. Try using the backpack sprayer some time.

I wash floors the space American way, inefficiently and while upsetting as many people as possible.

Fucking with a dude for doing his job and then escalating past yelling or pushing him without a response is adminhelpable under rule 1

PKPenguin321 wrote: tl;dr: You had a warning, and you shouldn't have been watering tiles when there's an active hostile antagonist event going on (nuke op war, gang domination, blob, etc)

Double posting, but how can one person even be this salty.

If you slip over on janitor water it's literally your own fault and you deserve it.

Except it's not. Because of how our movement works, or how it used to work, people were laggy enough that you could walk over a tile of water without being able to see it first. Our tiles are also incredibly light, which makes water very hard to see in some places, and almost impossible to see in the Medbay, a commonly trafficked area in Blob and ops.

It is 100% avoidable. You see a sign that says WALK then you walk. Unless the janitor is intentionally wetting high traffic areas because be can, or cleaning with space lube, you really got no reason to do more then yell at him or slap him a few times. Hell throw a sign at him if he's moving too far ahead of them.

99% of the time when I slip because of a janitor, it was my own damn fault and the sign was right there. And when its not, I happily beat his ass a couple times and remind him a ligger could do his job better.

Nuke ops can slip too, its hilarous way for the janitor and clown to be heroes of the station. Mop a 5x5 section of a hall with lube and put the disk in the middle. Free guns.

tl;dr if janitor is using signs and only cleaning messes, you got no excuse to take out your incompetence on the guy doing his job and preventing virology from spreading more hell mixes via blood.

oranges wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote: tl;dr: You had a warning, and you shouldn't have been watering tiles when there's an active hostile antagonist event going on (nuke op war, gang domination, blob, etc)

Double posting, but how can one person even be this salty.

If you slip over on janitor water it's literally your own fault and you deserve it.

Not even salt, dude. I maybe punched him once, verbally told him off, and jogged off with his cart, that's all. Not to mention that avoiding water tiles during combat/while rushing to prepare for combat is much more easily said than done, especially when you're struggling against lag.

If anything, OP is salty that he couldn't wet entire hallways during a nuke ops round without people getting upset with him. I honestly don't know what he expected.

Davidchan wrote:It is 100% avoidable. You see a sign that says WALK then you walk. Unless the janitor is intentionally wetting high traffic areas because be can, or cleaning with space lube, you really got no reason to do more then yell at him or slap him a few times. Hell throw a sign at him if he's moving too far ahead of them.

99% of the time when I slip because of a janitor, it was my own damn fault and the sign was right there. And when its not, I happily beat his ass a couple times and remind him a ligger could do his job better.

Nuke ops can slip too, its hilarous way for the janitor and clown to be heroes of the station. Mop a 5x5 section of a hall with lube and put the disk in the middle. Free guns.

tl;dr if janitor is using signs and only cleaning messes, you got no excuse to take out your incompetence on the guy doing his job and preventing virology from spreading more hell mixes via blood.

Sorry for doubleposting but I'm on mobile and don't have a clean way to put two quotes in one post.

1. The nuke ops hadn't even arrived yet, people were rushing to prepare and he was wetting halls outside the medbay and HoP office
2. You've clearly never had to walk in combat/a rush before. Since there is no hot key it is basically impossible to hit it on reaction, and reaction is just about all you have considering how difficult wet tiles can be to see and how much lag you have to put up with on a regular basis. Walking all of the time is completely out of the question, the slowdown is absurd.

How would you like it if you were a security officer and pushed you over and stole your gun because you were arresting people the wrong way?

You'd definitely adminhelp it.

If the Janitor isn't putting up signs, they should expect to have their cart stolen and hidden (but not spaced).
If the Janitor is using space lube, they should expect to have their cart spaced - and them with it.
But if the Janitor is using signs, using water as well is fine - and attacking the Janitor for disobeying the signs is bad. Don't steal their cart; you're the one at fault for not walking when you saw the "WALK" signs.

PKPenguin321 wrote:Sorry for doubleposting but I'm on mobile and don't have a clean way to put two quotes in one post.

1. The nuke ops hadn't even arrived yet, people were rushing to prepare and he was wetting halls outside the medbay and HoP office
2. You've clearly never had to walk in combat/a rush before. Since there is no hot key it is basically impossible to hit it on reaction, and reaction is just about all you have considering how difficult wet tiles can be to see and how much lag you have to put up with on a regular basis. Walking all of the time is completely out of the question, the slowdown is absurd.

>1. The nuke ops haven't arrived yet.

Were there messes? If so, he's perfectly in his right to clean them. It's not like the Janitor can do much to prepare for nuke ops. Chemistry isn't going to make him more cleaner grenades or give him lube, Security won't give him a gun or weapon. If the Ops haven't arrived yet and people are harassing the janitor for doing their job, maybe they shouldn't be dragging bloody bodies all over the place and beating the guy doing it and spreading messes.

>2. You've clearly never had to walk in combat/a rush before.

I have, and done it successfully. It's right next to the Resist button anyways. As one of the largest buttons, if you can be expected to pull an object out of your pockets, belt or inventory in combat (getting a flashbang, reloading magazines, changing weapons) you can be expected to his the largest button that doesn't require a free hand and has no click through (like clicking the 'pocket' around a crowbar). It's amazing hypocritical that you can scream that the janitor should only use soap (and have to clean EVERY drop of blood individually) yet you are incapable of taking the fraction of the second to toggle a button. If you HAVE to have a button, than make a suggestion or pull request to add a toggle-run/walk verb so you can macro it.

Nobody is saying walk all the time, but keeping an eye out for wet floors and slipping hazards is something you should do anyways when you're in danger, especially if you play sec. If you're not in combat, have no hostiles anywhere near you that you know of, and you're harassing the janitor for cleaning shit? You're in the fucking wrong and you know it.

oranges wrote:How would you like it if you were a security officer and pushed you over and stole your gun because you were arresting people the wrong way?

You'd definitely adminhelp it.

Ahelping as security... git gud. But yeah anyone who steals the Janitor's cart (let alone spacing it) may as well be valid as far as the janitor is concerned, literally someone taking an action to try and make someone else's job impossible to do.

I stole from you, you should read this as a detailed message on the danger of nuclear operatives and slipping hazards in combat situations!

Did you try talking?

People stealing the Janitor's Cart because they are just doing their job are scum. They simply do it to get a reaction from the Janitor and it'll oft succeed.

I think half the time they do it not because they hate the Janitor but because its much easier to get a rise out of a Janitor since his equipment consists of his cart, and that they can claim a flimsy excuse of him wetting tiles as a reason to steal the cart.

Nobody gives a fuck when you kill someone "invading your workspace"

But when a janitor kills someone who spaces their cart for slipping on tiles with a huge sign on them its suddenly an ooc issue.

Incomptinence wrote:I stole from you, you should read this as a detailed message on the danger of nuclear operatives and slipping hazards in combat situations!

Did you try talking?

Yes.

I always protect janitors from bullies because I value their work.

oranges wrote:Fucking with a dude for doing his job and then escalating past yelling or pushing him without a response is adminhelpable under rule 1

Thanks mini-mod orange for your incorrect and unauthoritative bark.

Precedence has always been that you CAN'T beat the janitor for using water as long as:
-He's using signs
-Its not some rage round like nuke ops or blob, or most rev rounds (although everything goes in rev rounds so thats not saying much).
-He's not excessively cleaning areas that aren't dirty.

Anything else and you're opening yourself up for !!fun!!

You can't just escalate past a few pushes or a punch if the other person doesn't escalate along side you because that's now how escalation works.

oranges wrote:You can't just escalate past a few pushes or a punch if the other person doesn't escalate along side you because that's now how escalation works.

It doesn't seem to make sense that you can punch the Janitor for doing their job correctly (with signs and all), and then severely wound them and/or space their essential gear when they retaliate. In an ideal world, people wouldn't use violence as their first solution.

In real life that is true but in this game violence is usually the most exciting part

That says more about how uneventful the rest of the game is than it does about how exciting the violence is. When you could follow the Janitor around drawing pro-lizard graffiti behind them, isn't that more fun than just hitting them?

So basically if its valid to assault the janitor, steak their shit or even kill them for using water, then sec using flashbang makes them equally valid for all bystanders. Cause that's what this thread reads like.

The janitor cart should have some sort of buckle/rope thing that you can attach to it so no one can steal it from you. maybe it slows you down more, but hey people have to take it off of you now. instead of just pulling it away. like a backpack item that dispenses a cable that you attach to the cart and it pulls along behind you

TheWiznard wrote:The janitor cart should have some sort of buckle/rope thing that you can attach to it so no one can steal it from you. maybe it slows you down more, but hey people have to take it off of you now. instead of just pulling it away. like a backpack item that dispenses a cable that you attach to the cart and it pulls along behind you

So basically make the janitor's scooter able to hold items and store water?

Yeah, this is a really shitty thing to put up with, really put me off playing janitor so now I just play clown instead.

You do know that you don't even need to use the Janicart.

It depends on how you want to play really, but you can easily get away with using the janibelt and the backpack sprayer. No one can steal that off of you.

The problem there is that some people dislike that since its too efficient, they much prefer the less efficient method of using the cart and mop.

Steelpoint wrote:You do know that you don't even need to use the Janicart.

It depends on how you want to play really, but you can easily get away with using the janibelt and the backpack sprayer. No one can steal that off of you.

The problem there is that some people dislike that since its too efficient, they much prefer the less efficient method of using the cart and mop.

It's more to do with having to sacrifice your backpack slot for an extra-large spray cleaner bottle and having to hand carry your trash bag. Not having a backpack makes tator janitor damn near impossible to do. The cart can hold everything you need, and allow you to wear a toolbelt if you feel like being more of a maintenance man.

And as any experienced janitor can tell you, the mop just cleans more things. The backpack sprayer has all the problems of a regular sprayer (can't clean walls, under tables, racks or around equipment), so using the Sprayer is only more efficient if you are just cleaning places you can walk. The sprayer also slows you down by wearing it.

Davidchan wrote:

TheWiznard wrote:The janitor cart should have some sort of buckle/rope thing that you can attach to it so no one can steal it from you. maybe it slows you down more, but hey people have to take it off of you now. instead of just pulling it away. like a backpack item that dispenses a cable that you attach to the cart and it pulls along behind you

So basically make the janitor's scooter able to hold items and store water?

Nah . I'm talking about a rope; essentially a "tether" that connects you and the cart and prevents you from being seprerated by more than one tile. You don't need to hold a key but move slightly slower.

I agree with you that people abuse the shit out of Janitors and other staff who are just trying to do their jobs because they're too dumb to read a sign or avoid a construction site.

I think you should be allowed to defend yourself with reasonable force if someone is trying to steal your shit or hinder your job excessively. Not to say fucking with people shouldn't be allowed, its a beloved and time honored pasttime, but so is getting dunked by a mad crewmember if you aren't robust enough to get away with it.

That being said-

USE FUCKING SPACE CLEANER YOU FUCK ITS NOT HARD, HINDRANCE WORKS BOTH WAYS AND IF I GET SLIPPED AT THE END OF SEC HALL ONE MORE TIME PREPARE TO EAT BATON.

ShadowDimentio wrote:I wash floors the space American way, inefficiently and while upsetting as many people as possible.

You can't stop me, shitcurity!

Davidchan wrote:

Steelpoint wrote:You do know that you don't even need to use the Janicart.

It depends on how you want to play really, but you can easily get away with using the janibelt and the backpack sprayer. No one can steal that off of you.

The problem there is that some people dislike that since its too efficient, they much prefer the less efficient method of using the cart and mop.

It's more to do with having to sacrifice your backpack slot for an extra-large spray cleaner bottle and having to hand carry your trash bag. Not having a backpack makes tator janitor damn near impossible to do. The cart can hold everything you need, and allow you to wear a toolbelt if you feel like being more of a maintenance man.

And as any experienced janitor can tell you, the mop just cleans more things. The backpack sprayer has all the problems of a regular sprayer (can't clean walls, under tables, racks or around equipment), so using the Sprayer is only more efficient if you are just cleaning places you can walk. The sprayer also slows you down by wearing it.

the backpack is not what he means. take the bucket that you start with in the janitor closet, fill it with water, put your mop and bucket into your backpack, and wet your mop in the bucket
that's what i do. the bucket is just a smaller cart.

Davidchan wrote:So basically if its valid to assault the janitor, steak their shit or even kill them for using water, then sec using flashbang makes them equally valid for all bystanders. Cause that's what this thread reads like.

maybe if he's a cunt about it when you tell him to stop because that's IC escalation, but otherwise no. if you tell him to stop and have a good reason (like it's nuke ops war or w/e) and he doesn't then feel free to yoink his cart. he even has a thing on his PDA that can locate it, so unless you space it (which is a dick move that you should reserve for dick janitors) it's only a minor inconvenience at best.

TheWiznard wrote:The janitor cart should have some sort of buckle/rope thing that you can attach to it so no one can steal it from you. maybe it slows you down more, but hey people have to take it off of you now. instead of just pulling it away. like a backpack item that dispenses a cable that you attach to the cart and it pulls along behind you

use your pda locater fam

Just as a note, if someone steals a cart and the PDA locator reads "Derelict" when I check it, they are not going to be found alive.