/tg/Station 13

After a few complaints of salt and one metagrudge admin genocide i thought to bring this up.

Im calling into question the practices of lavaland natives, 'Ash Walkers'.

{"<B>You are an Ash Walker. Your tribe worships <span class='danger'>the necropolis</span>. The wastes are sacred ground, it's monsters a blessed bounty. You have seen lights in the distance though, the arrival of outsiders seeking to destroy the land. Fresh sacrifices.</B>"}

Basically the premise is set for conflict. Its informed the player RP wise that miners exist to be killed and encourages killing them.

Im not suggesting that much changes on the front of conflict, as it is pivotal to RP culture to maintain the hunt, but instead that ash walkers should in moderation be liable for super aggressive acts and be a tad bit more PC about things. As in to have some minor consideration for other players rather than "stab the nearest thing you see that breathes" to deflect accusations made against ashwalkers honour that they are 'free murderbone antags'. Indeed they are not by definition, but they can if conditions are right to boost their numbers advantageously.

For a suggestion what defines as so many ash walkers cry out after battle "A good hunt"?

> Food for the nest
> Typically a vigorous battle
> Minimal Injuries to ashmember party
> Additional perks such as loot and a safe trip home

This in itself is fine for goliath & monster hunting, but hunting a person is a different matter. There should be RP steps taken by both miners and ash walker parties to keep up the tension but stop the blatant murder.

Under a definition of a bad hunt

> *Risk of losing numbers for rewards payoff*
> Wasting resources healing up/throwing spears to chase hunt
> *Spending a lot of time away from base*
> *Fighting unworthy prey*

Points here that are starred are relevant to the policy i want to address.

> Fighting miners may incur more risk than the ash lizards may handle, as it may alert them to their presence nearby and incur military action - Ash lizards should take this into account in their own RP way.

> Long distance should be de-incentivised to hunt prey away from fixed 'hunting ground encroachment' which starts at lizard mining base until they find traces of mining occupation, a imaginary border should be mentally mapped there. Encroachment any closer should be punished and ideally the ash walkers should put up a sign or something (a spare gladiator helm surrounded by gibs or something) to enter at own risk and breifly alert miners that its probably a bad idea if they dont want to get cucked. On the other hand miners discovering ash lizards should try to be respectful and make thier presence either brief and unknown or immediately surrender, being robbed (if player discretion says so) and leave if they dont want to aggro them, provoking them aggressively so sensitively near the nest is going to be a thorny subject to negitiations

> Unarmed civilians who are not aggressive should be de-prioritised as prey for not being a worthy hunt. Typically to defuse a ash walker confrontation, dropping your weapons is recommended, ash walkers cant use guns and ash walkers who try to dispose of guns after 'surrendering' should be punished. If you put up your dukes or ignore a ash lizards warnings expect to get dunked validly.

In the end it should be player discretion to the flexibility of these policy rules but exceedingly shit plays or excessive murderbone should be accounted for.

Im by no means a hater of ash lizards, im more or less a fan of playing them and as a insiders insight i do think the policy needs to change. More often than not given the reputation, other ghost roles (vault people especially) are glad to not be disembowelled and offered to a tendril without means to respawn just because some ash walkers want to poach a easy hunt.

I have also suggested the basis of a PR and a forum suggestion thread on a way to stabilise a ashwalker economy, so they have something other to do than purely "validhunt" and give the crew a opt in/opt out way of getting rich quick for smashing some ash walker skulls to rob coins with the possibility to backfire and give the ash walkers a green light to pillage.

> Ashwalker forum thread
> Ashwalker PR

feedback on these little discussed people would be appreciated. Thanks

Would having an ash walker policy where they're supposed to prioritize defending their village (which could contain a fuck ton of rare ore if the miners are feeling bold enough to raid it) over just running around looking for miners to kill be something that could be reinforced?

z-levels are quite small, especially when advanced mining gear is in play

this would be a cool idea of lavaworld was multiple z-levels or was just larger

More like roadkill one then curbstomp the other until they're unrecognisable. Ashwalkers are nothing but a free valid token and a way to piss players off.

>dunk a single miner
>R&D gets pissed you're killing their miners
>Entire security force and 2 combat mechs drop on your party
>cry

That sounds beautiful

Jmad what are you gibbering about every antag role in the game is free.

Incomptinence wrote:Jmad what are you gibbering about every antag role in the game is free.

I think he is saying that the ashwalkers are KOS at all times.

If you kill a traitor you better have a good reason to.
'He had a toolbox as an assistant' will get you banned

You can't get bwoinked for killing a ashwalker

No I mean they're given a free pass to grief, kill, and such at any given spawning time, and free right to be treated this way. Antag at will essentially, bypassing the RNG system.

So like aliens we have had forever?

We should make it so that that ashwalkers are more defenders of their area, being more of a territorial group who would hunt for monsters and would be willing to make deals with "intruders" if they provide patronage(corpses).

Also make it so that once they enter the mining outpost or even the station without any hostility, they are effectively unable to kill unless provoked.

Wait how the fuck did I quote my own post I swear I didn't mean to do it

kevinz000 wrote:>dunk a single miner
>R&D gets pissed you're killing their miners
>Entire security force and 2 combat mechs drop on your party
>cry

^this

There's no need for a specific policy, ash walkers are so weak that if they become too annoying and disrupting to mining operations, the station can just dispatch a killsquad to eradicate them. This is much better than trying to bind them further with more rules and nerfs for the sake of RP when the most RPish thing you can do as crew is hunt the fuckers down like the savage beasts they are

Give the QM an elephant gun to blow basketball sized holes in ashwalkers when

Are lavaland ruins bugged or is it just on basil? The last few days i have been floating around and have not seen a single ruin, let alone a respawn role

They were bugged but got fixed. Basil might not be updated yet.

Shaps wrote:Give the QM an elephant gun to blow basketball sized holes in ashwalkers when

.666 Lizard killer express

/obj/item/projectile/bullet/liggerwalker
if(M.dna.species.id == "lizard")
damage = 666
else
damage = 100

J_Madison wrote:

Shaps wrote:Give the QM an elephant gun to blow basketball sized holes in ashwalkers when

.666 Lizard killer express

/obj/item/projectile/bullet/liggerwalker
if(M.dna.species.id == "lizard")
damage = 666
else
damage = 100

ash walkers are actually a species you infinicuck

They are actually just lizards

Kor wrote:They are actually just lizards

shhh im trying to be smart I couldve sworn I saw it in a magic mirror

They're a subtype of lizards who don't need to breathe

Do not remove white ship drive-bys.

I mean guess what killed the original operators?

Directly relevant to this thread now.

The ash walkers can collect goliath plates and sail down the lava lakes with greater speed and overcome obstacles.

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/16830 - Adds lava boats - Korphareon (MERGED!!)

That's actually a big deal since lava lakes will always lead to near the mining station

Now we need a traitor lava boat that basically just acts like a jetpack for 20tc. Make it spray out supercooled plasma.

J_Madison wrote:

Shaps wrote:Give the QM an elephant gun to blow basketball sized holes in ashwalkers when

.666 Lizard killer express

/obj/item/projectile/bullet/liggerwalker
if(M.dna.species.id == "lizard")
damage = 666
else
damage = 100

As lizard QM, I am offended.

the one thing that is definitely cancer is if an ash walker throws the ai upgrade into lava or something as a big middle finger. that shouldn't be ok.

I don't think Ash walkers should be given a full antag status, I love playing them, I love killing miners but the best rounds I have had involve interacting with the miners.
I remember one round where we traded goliath plates and diamonds to a miner for a bluespace capsule that gave us the ability to heal ourselves having expended the bruise packs you start with.
Later he died, cargo assumed we killed him, came hunting us with shotguns and as such were fed to the necropolis, we then sorted it out with a remaining cargo tech and all was well.

I also recall a round where the spawn was within two screens of the mining outpost, so at round start one of the three miners runs off while the other two are talking, starts attacking the tendril and all three miners get gibbed, immediately respawn as ash walkers and run off to the station and start murderboning.

One was fun, the other was just finding any excuse to get them valids. Ash walkers have huge potential but right now they're just a way for dead shitters to easily come back from death to get valid kills.

Offtopic, but for some reason my general hate for lizards and lizard players doesn't extend to ash walkers. Several rounds I've went out of my way to find and pen/loyalty implant ash walkers and introduce them to the civilization. You don't have to kill the primitive, badly armed liggers, you know.

InsaneHyena wrote:Offtopic, but for some reason my general hate for lizards and lizard players doesn't extend to ash walkers. Several rounds I've went out of my way to find and pen/loyalty implant ash walkers and introduce them to the civilization. You don't have to kill the primitive, badly armed liggers, you know.

[youtube]PgXTNBLaVtQ[/youtube]

InsaneHyena wrote:Offtopic, but for some reason my general hate for lizards and lizard players doesn't extend to ash walkers. Several rounds I've went out of my way to find and pen/loyalty implant ash walkers and introduce them to the civilization. You don't have to kill the primitive, badly armed liggers, you know.

Ah, the conversion is working.

Sssooon.

Keep dreaming, dirty lizard.

Goliath bone oars double up pretty well as makeshift clubs with about 15 damage max per hit.

The new armour (bone chestpiece & talisman with new buckler coming soon) is also quite robust, so they're a bit more rigid now rather than being shot to death with dual wielding KA's in one go and survive combat slightly longer.

Ivan Issaccs wrote:I don't think Ash walkers should be given a full antag status, I love playing them, I love killing miners but the best rounds I have had involve interacting with the miners.
I remember one round where we traded goliath plates and diamonds to a miner for a bluespace capsule that gave us the ability to heal ourselves having expended the bruise packs you start with.
Later he died, cargo assumed we killed him, came hunting us with shotguns and as such were fed to the necropolis, we then sorted it out with a remaining cargo tech and all was well.

I also recall a round where the spawn was within two screens of the mining outpost, so at round start one of the three miners runs off while the other two are talking, starts attacking the tendril and all three miners get gibbed, immediately respawn as ash walkers and run off to the station and start murderboning.

One was fun, the other was just finding any excuse to get them valids. Ash walkers have huge potential but right now they're just a way for dead shitters to easily come back from death to get valid kills.

I think that's part of the fun though. You can go to war with them, you can recruit them, you can trade with them, etc. It's all up to the players involved. You can create any number of different stories.

Lavaland has existed a couple months now with basically 0 rules, and from what I've seen there has been more roleplay there than you usually find on station (on Sybil, anyway).

InsaneHyena wrote:Offtopic, but for some reason my general hate for lizards and lizard players doesn't extend to ash walkers. Several rounds I've went out of my way to find and pen/loyalty implant ash walkers and introduce them to the civilization. You don't have to kill the primitive, badly armed liggers, you know.

You don't have to... but its more fun if you do.


By the way, any rules against the station tooling up then heading down to lava land to hunt for ligger tail meat?

None, they can do it if they so choose. They probably want to make sure they exist first though.

I hope one day to be able to use virology to introduce scale rot to the ash-walking Lizards. We Spanish Empire now.

Something Anonmare actually said in the rage thread

>Not negotiating with the natives with shiny beads
ISHYGDDT

Actually trying to encourage some kind of roleplay like this would be nice. Maybe trading goliath meat, bones, or maybe even shelter pods and some form of defense against lava land monsters besides shitty spears out of the mining vendor in exchange for materials and artifacts would be pretty damn cool. As it is right now it just boils down to "THEY VALID LET'S KILL THEM" or "WE ANTAG LETS KILL THEM" which is just kind of shitty and turns mining into a DM shitshow.

Another idea I had was to make them more vulnerable to ash storms and have sort of village huts spawn near the tendril. Give them rudimentary mining/smelting stuff as well that they can use to build new structures as well. The idea being to encourage them to stay within a reasonable distance of their village so as to seek shelter when necessary while also giving them means to expand the village so they can venture out further instead of just sort of spawning and running out to look for miners to kill.

Why you gotta make a PR man? thread is right here

Am I the only one who's pissed off that "etiquette" is misspelled?

DemonFiren wrote:Am I the only one who's pissed off that "etiquette" is misspelled?

God dammit all this time i've never even noticed that huge fuckup.

DemonFiren wrote:Am I the only one who's pissed off that "etiquette" is misspelled?

Forum grammar is only as good as IC grammar. Anything to get replies.

A relevant bump (retire this thread to the NTR hut if not applicable since that's common procedure now) on account of ashwalkers getting nerfed with digitade legs making station charges more impractical and less likely to happen, as well as typically slower as per base default of not being able to wear shoes ever.

> Shooting a ashwalker who just put down his weapons and all his items and practically surrendered and is co-operative to giving them your valuables for just going away vs murdering them all in cold blood for a singularity core and a sick thrill

Shoot or nah?

Never not execute all ash liggers ever.

Equiette

Saegrimr wrote:Never not execute all ash liggers ever.

Its like you WANT them to stab you, when its a completely avoidable situation to which miners abuse their never extinguishing dragon suits and ruin/boss loot/mining gear to kill the hell out of them without a bats chance in hell by rushing them early when there is usually 5 at max alive at any time rather than a adequate 10 once beefed up.

Not killing ash walkers on sight always ends awfully for miners.

ALWAYS.

D&B wrote:Not killing ash walkers on sight always ends awfully for miners.

ALWAYS.

Only because both of you have a stereotype of each other as complete enemies.

There ARE reasonable ashwalkers out there.

ASH WALKERS DINDU NUFFIN DEY GOOD BOIS. JUST WANNA GET DEM SPACE EDUCATION. THAT WASN'T A SPEAR IT WAS A REALLY LONG BOOK.

There's a new thing now where ash lizards like to bring megafauna to the base. Let's not do that.