/tg/Station 13

Why is it okay for security to detain crew members, take their stuff, and then release them without giving that stuff back? Then, when someone tries to get their stuff back (like a fucking violin not a gun), that sec officer can toss that person in the gulag or perma? It's the equivalent of theft and banbaiting, but since they're sec it's okay. Baiting people into retaliating and then removing from the game is shit.

This has always been a problem with sec. They get a free pass to take anything from you and it's ruled an IC issue, when sec shouldn't be stealing in the first place.

Contraband is contraband and stays with security.

Other shit should be returned.

Yellow gloves are contraband on non-engineering staff. Yes, there's a single pair in the machine. No, this is not that pair, as this is the 3rd set of gloves that have been taken.

Easy solution: don't get arrested or just don't break the law

iamgoofball wrote:Yellow gloves are contraband on non-engineering staff.

I can't tell if you're joking or not. Do the crates of gloves cargo can order require engineering access to open?

Slettal wrote:Easy solution: don't get arrested or just don't break the law

Except in the instance I stated, I had done nothing beforehand to even be arrested. I spent most of the round braindead looking for MIDI's. The officer said after holding me for over 10 minutes that "your wanted", when the entire brig was smashed open and the console probably logged in.

Did you adminhelp it? If a Security Officer arrests someone because they are wanted and never bothers checking with their co-workers why that's so (Or does ask but nobody knows) but still holds the guy anyway I tend to yell at them and then give advice on how to play security and have everyone like you.

Owegno wrote:Did you adminhelp it? If a Security Officer arrests someone because they are wanted and never bothers checking with their co-workers why that's so (Or does ask but nobody knows) but still holds the guy anyway I tend to yell at them and then give advice on how to play security and have everyone like you.

Yeah, they ended up getting a note. Immediately after my release they said they'd give my stuff back, but then ran off chasing people. Though they told the admin they were braindead at the time, which is a pure lie.

But this isn't a ban request.

iamgoofball wrote:Yellow gloves are contraband on non-engineering staff. Yes, there's a single pair in the machine. No, this is not that pair, as this is the 3rd set of gloves that have been taken.

The height of shitcurity. THESE INSULINS MAY BE CONTRABAND THEREFORE THEY'RE ALWAYS CONTRABAND, ENJOY 10 MINUTES BRIG CRIMINAL SCUM ALSO I'LL BE KEEPING THE GLOVES FOR MYSELF.

I would space you in a heartbeat as HoS if I caught you sperging like this. You don't brig people because they MIGHT have committed a crime, you brig them if you KNOW they committed a crime. Further, trying to arrest people for every tiny charge you can trump up on them makes people fucking hate security and makes my life hell when I'm fighting two traitors and three greytiders that you caused to go fucking aggro with your shit.

The entire game is structured around conflict, yet every time players get even the tiniest bit of non-antag conflict they whine about it.

"Boohoo sec confiscated my violin"

Seriously, people really do want the game to be entirely safe and full of hugs don't they?

>what is the difference between natural conflict and a position which is easily abusable with little to no fair method of recourse

Security get given extensive privileges right now, the best they've ever had since SoS left, to deal with hard situations (cult, rev) or problem players (griefers, baiters) as they see fit. No other role gets so much carte blanche in removing people from the round save the captain. They get this admin protection through the rules so they can do their job properly without fearing admins banning them. This OOC privilege and their starting IC gear and authority, does not extend to allowing negatively impacting the game for other players for no reason.

That's all there is to it and I thought a fairly long-time sec player like yourself would know better. Don't play security if you're there to be a poor player hiding under a red uniform and a starting taser. You make it worse for every other sec player who tries to do the right thing.

imblyings wrote:>what is the difference between natural conflict and a position which is easily abusable with little to no fair method of recourse

Security get given extensive privileges right now, the best they've ever had since SoS left, to deal with hard situations (cult, rev) or problem players (griefers, baiters) as they see fit. No other role gets so much carte blanche in removing people from the round save the captain. They get this admin protection through the rules so they can do their job properly without fearing admins banning them. This OOC privilege and their starting IC gear and authority, does not extend to allowing negatively impacting the game for other players for no reason.

That's all there is to it and I thought a fairly long-time sec player like yourself would know better. Don't play security if you're there to be a poor player hiding under a red uniform and a starting taser. You make it worse for every other sec player who tries to do the right thing.

Sec confiscating stuff for "no raisin" is pretty rare. It's usually someone whining about their yellow gloves being taken away while they were hacking doors, or the chaplain whining about his sword taken away while he was bashing people with it. Sometimes people confiscate stuff because it is getting annoying, like people spamming laser tag beams for the 99th time or that ultra-loud violin (is it that violin that is obnoxiously loud?). More often it is the crew that handles things like this by just throwing your violin out of an airlock.

So basically this thread wants to reintroduce security getting ahelped for every greytider that gets arrested. Excessive abuse of authority is already dealt with just fine under the rules we now have.

They were shitty, you ahelped, they got a note, they'll likely get a secban if they keep doing it and more people ahelp them and their notes get longer.

Sounds like the current policy is doing what you're calling for to be done.

Screemonster wrote:They were shitty, you ahelped, they got a note, they'll likely get a secban if they keep doing it and more people ahelp them and their notes get longer.

Sounds like the current policy is doing what you're calling for to be done.

Really makes you think

The bloodlust against security is about as sad as people abusing the position as security.

There isn't any serious blood lust against security though. We have given them pretty much everuthing they've asked for both rules and code wise for years now.

I really don't understand how sec still acts victimized when almost every interaction is heavily slanted in their favour.

If you hack into somewhere and get arrested, I will confiscate your toolbelt and gloves and put them in the evidence.

Lumbermancer wrote:If you hack into somewhere and get arrested, I will confiscate your toolbelt and gloves and put them in the evidence.

This is how it should be done. Having tools isn't in itself bad, but if you use those tools to commit a crime, you're not responsible enough to have them. It's like if an atmos tech starts smashing windows with a fire axe, you take the axe.

Yeah like I'm not going to pull you over just for having gloves, that's dumb. If you're arrested for B&E, though, say goodbye.

iamgoofball wrote:Yeah like I'm not going to pull you over just for having gloves, that's dumb. If you're arrested for B&E, though, say goodbye.

And if someone IS arresting you for having tools, ahelp em.

Kor wrote:There isn't any serious blood lust against security though. We have given them pretty much everuthing they've asked for both rules and code wise for years now.

I really don't understand how sec still acts victimized when almost every interaction is heavily slanted in their favour.

I would think this thread falls against that claim when the incident revolving around this thread is

> Officer acting like trash
> Is handled by admins
> claims security is getting away scot-free anyways.

What more needs to be done to "appease the players"? Bwoink someone everytime people enter the brig in cuffs? Bwoink someone everytime they arrest someone when the reason they're wanted is unknown? Watch sec religiously to make sure they don't "slip up"?

I mean yeah it sucks, but that's the name of the game. Sometimes you're going to get brigged for reasons unknown to both you and the officer. You may have been framed [directly or not], someone may have mistaken you for someone killing half of medbay, an officer might have misunderstood a situation, etc.

If an officer is REALLY being trash, then ahelp it [like you did earlier] so he can be punished [like what occurred earlier]. Otherwise, I can't really say much except "stuff happens" and to view our tenth [really should be our second if not first] rule.

With that said, has it been years since sos was in power? that was definitely the age of sec :^)

The crimes section in the sec records exist for a reason.
If someone ahelps about being arrested and I check their sec records and they don't have anything in them except for the wanted status set, I'm going to assume they were innocent.
I've seen people gulaged and even permaed with completely clean records.
Honestly the wanted status should auto clear after a minute or so if there's no crime specified.

Isane wrote:

iamgoofball wrote:Yellow gloves are contraband on non-engineering staff.

I can't tell if you're joking or not. Do the crates of gloves cargo can order require engineering access to open?

They do, actually. Unless it got changed, then again access stopped mattering on crates because everyone bitches when you remove the methods of bashing them open to bypass needing access.

Shadowlight213 wrote:Honestly the wanted status should auto clear after a minute or so if there's no crime specified.

It's not there to mark crimes, it's there to make sure beepsky beats people down.

iamgoofball wrote: They do, actually. Unless it got changed, then again access stopped mattering on crates because everyone bitches when you remove the methods of bashing them open to bypass needing access.

They don't require access. You can order three gloves in a crate for a pitiful amount of points. ToolVendors have a pair, tool lockers have a chance of having one, and Metastation has at least one persistent spawn in maint. There's even some at a few of the space locations.

Take away gloves and tools if the person used them to commit a crime, but claiming they're "contraband" is just being a dick so you have an excuse to steal them.

iamgoofball wrote:Yellow gloves are contraband on non-engineering staff. Yes, there's a single pair in the machine. No, this is not that pair, as this is the 3rd set of gloves that have been taken.

you should be dead

Kor wrote:I really don't understand how sec still acts victimized when almost every interaction is heavily slanted in their favour.

Chronically understaffed.

Lumbermancer wrote:

Kor wrote:I really don't understand how sec still acts victimized when almost every interaction is heavily slanted in their favour.

Chronically understaffed.

What's the reason for this now?

PKPenguin321 wrote:

iamgoofball wrote:Yellow gloves are contraband on non-engineering staff. Yes, there's a single pair in the machine. No, this is not that pair, as this is the 3rd set of gloves that have been taken.

you should be dead

Continue reading the thread.

People generally hate playing sec, since they are always called shitcurity at the end of the round no matter what

That'll never change though. STORY TIME

Last week as HoS I was patroling and saw an implanter laying on the floor near arrivals. I took it and pulled some prints from a cargo tech off it, and went aggro on him. After I caught and cuffed him he escaped with a freedom implant, only to nearly be caught again but escape due to a random botanist helping him up as I attempt to execute the tech. Cue me going aggro on the botanist too.

Eventually I caught and executed them both on the spot, and put the brain of the traitor in a MMI for salty conversation memes, only to get called shitcurity. Shortly later I get bwoinked and asked why I executed the botanist and explain he got nuked because he saved a traitor and tripled the time it took for me to chase him down. The admin says thanks and no action is taken because it was valid.

This is how security interactions should go, and it went about as smoothly as anything in SS13. Moral of the story: Even if you're 100% in the right, salt will still force people to call you shit.

Personally I would have arrested the botanist, strapped him to a chair, given him a stern reminder to act in good faith when witnessing Security operations and tossed him out of the brig.
Oh, yes, and the usual search, harrass and confiscate. A little punishment is required.

A fairer alternative, but getting dunked taught him a stern lesson that saving random people from shicurity isn't always a good thing.

And put a deep hatred of security - and probably you - into him.
Congratulations.

All in a day's work for me.

Aiding and abetting carries the same sentence.

If you don't want a ticket out the airlock then don't involve yourself in arrests unless you can outrobust the sec officer.

Where does this shitty idea that people need to be saved from security even come from?

Muh valids

Security being understaffed is their own fault. They constantly seek out conflict with the crew in some lame excuse to get valids, the rules around security are so loose right now that if the crew violently protests an unlawful or unnecessary arrest they are likely to be executed. The only check and balance against security right now is the Captain and the admins, the latter who simply don't care to get involved unless someone obviously needs to be banned and the former will rarely exercise any power to control security. And when they do they may get gulag'd and the HoS seize captain-ship. So anyone not in the security clique is going to find security to be appalling. Why play a role where the majority of the regulars are doing their best to be toxic as possible so the crew has little to no incentive to cooperate and play nice with security, making it harsh environment for new players and veterans alike.

Security operates on this paranoia that 90% of the crew will kill them given have a chance, even when this is blatantly false and discounting antags only the odd greyshirt or disgruntled crew member they pissed off earlier in the shift would even dare try to fuck over security, as it's pretty well known that a non-antag killing security will be a straight up ban with any admin investigation not happening until well after the round was over whether or not escalation was reasonable against security for being shit.

The fact that gang and shadowling are no more are directly tied to securities shit behavior, outright red-texting just because they can and actively searching for evidence of conversion modes. Gang in particular got shafted because security players got a stick up their ass about a game mode NOT involving them directly and letting them have all the fun with most of the perks of gangs becoming liabilities as if sec sees a gang tag or one of the few gang uniforms they will rip that department to shreds until they find the gang leader.

iamgoofball wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:

iamgoofball wrote:Yellow gloves are contraband on non-engineering staff. Yes, there's a single pair in the machine. No, this is not that pair, as this is the 3rd set of gloves that have been taken.

you should be dead

Continue reading the thread.

point stands

Once I get headcoder the security lobby better watch out.

It will be over for them

oranges wrote:Once I get headcoder the security lobby better watch out.

It will be over for them

are you going to paint the tiles pink

oranges wrote:Once I get headcoder the security lobby better watch out.

It will be over for them

Remove stunbatons 2016

Slettal wrote:

oranges wrote:Once I get headcoder the security lobby better watch out.

It will be over for them

Remove stunbatons 2016

Consider suicide

stunbatons no longer fitting in belts or backpacks like stunprods, handcuffs breaking when escaped from, armor nerfed back to reasonable levels with slowdown readded. Greysec returns.

Davidchan wrote:stunbatons no longer fitting in belts or backpacks like stunprods, handcuffs breaking when escaped from, armor nerfed back to reasonable levels with slowdown readded. Greysec returns.

That just sounds suspiciously like clowns with zipties. Slipcurity?

Sidon wrote:What's the reason for this now?

It's a niche job for specific people that's thankless and not very rewarding and has big responsibilities and potential implications on round flow.

To clear this all up since I was said officer.
You were wanted. So i stun and arrest you.
You dropped the violin that was in hand. I take you to brig. Put you in a cell and examine you to see why you're wanted. Says something like "cultist" or "possible cultist".
I'm now on high alert cause possible cult in my hands.
Yell repeatedly for Ada the chaplain to come over and fill you with holy. All the while this process youre screaming that I'd you lose your violin you'll beat/kill me. Can't remember exact words. Some nice person came by and dropped the violin off for you. While waiting for the holy water to do its job I went outside the brig and grabbed it. Came back in and waited some more. You continued to threaten me. Cell opens and my dad walks in yelling at me for some autistic reason. This has my attention for 30 seconds. When he left and I turn back to the game you were gone. So with a cult to deal with. The angry person with no violin gone. I just go space the violin because I don't have time to go find you. You find me in the halls and start to hit me with a guitar. Another officer was nearby and together we arrest you. I bring you back for assault of an officer and I try to telegulag for my first time fumbling over it so that 1. Cells that are broken arent useful anymore. 2. I want you out of my hair, youre a non culty. 3. I need to deal with the cult. I cant telegulag cause im a normal officer. So i go put you n perma and tell you to grow some shit or whatnot. I process you into perma. Go to the sec room and my mom calls up upstairs. I grab a cheese bagel while I'm up stairs. I come back down and i see Duncdar has admin pm'd me. I scroll up. Start typing this out and round ends before I can. I give him a shortened version. He tells me to just ignore your ass next time.

Alipheese wrote:To clear this all up since I was said officer.
You were wanted. So i stun and arrest you.
You dropped the violin that was in hand. I take you to brig. Put you in a cell and examine you to see why you're wanted. Says something like "cultist" or "possible cultist".
I'm now on high alert cause possible cult in my hands.
Yell repeatedly for Ada the chaplain to come over and fill you with holy. All the while this process youre screaming that I'd you lose your violin you'll beat/kill me. Can't remember exact words. Some nice person came by and dropped the violin off for you. While waiting for the holy water to do its job I went outside the brig and grabbed it. Came back in and waited some more. You continued to threaten me. Cell opens and my dad walks in yelling at me for some autistic reason. This has my attention for 30 seconds. When he left and I turn back to the game you were gone. So with a cult to deal with. The angry person with no violin gone. I just go space the violin because I don't have time to go find you. You find me in the halls and start to hit me with a guitar. Another officer was nearby and together we arrest you. I bring you back for assault of an officer and I try to telegulag for my first time fumbling over it so that 1. Cells that are broken arent useful anymore. 2. I want you out of my hair, youre a non culty. 3. I need to deal with the cult. I cant telegulag cause im a normal officer. So i go put you n perma and tell you to grow some shit or whatnot. I process you into perma. Go to the sec room and my mom calls up upstairs. I grab a cheese bagel while I'm up stairs. I come back down and i see Duncdar has admin pm'd me. I scroll up. Start typing this out and round ends before I can. I give her a shortened version. She tells me to just ignore your ass next time.

really makes you think, part 2

Sec is understaffed due to lack of content, exhausting job and generally mopping over others.

If you die big whoop, someone gets access to a department.

If I die I give away the brig and all of my belongings.


I don't have time to deal with small petty incidents and be expected to treat you specially and differently.
If you break into somewhere I'm taking your tools.
If you do nothing but get in the way of arrests with an annoying instrument I'm taking that instrument.
If you try to attack me I will throw your ass into the gulag for 600 points.

Security reacts. If they instigate that's against the rules. Every action has a reaction.

You have dozens of jobs and hundreds of gimmicks. What gimmick you think is appropriate will be met with an equally appropriate reaction.

If the game to you revolves around a pixel instrument, then you're likely not going contribute anything and in the kingdom of convertion antags, the useless non-contributing players are king.



Here's a hint: play your job or don't play at all. If you act like a waste of slot I'll treat you as one.

I was going to avoid posting, but I feel that I should clarify my exact words to Daturix were "Sorry for taking a while to get back to you, but thanks for clarifying that. In the future, however, it may just be best to send them on their way after a regular brig sentence, considering it was the result of two attacks with a guitar." While I know that can be read as "to just ignore your ass next time," I tend to be a lot more polite and optimistic.
After this, they were given a note containing information about the incident, primarily as a reference should a similar situation occur again.