/tg/Station 13

How do we address button pressing as a result of Dead/bored players and admins caving into their demand.

I want my salt and a natural round end from my effective sec gameplay, not a low effort admin event because of ADHD dead players that don't understand dying is part of the game and next time don't die.

your op gave me a headache

How do we address button pressing as a result of Dead/bored players and admins caving into their demand.

Most events aren't spawned at deadchat's request.

And even if we ignore that part, button pressing is a natural part of stopping the round from becoming extended lite.

Personally I like extended, but the stance of most players is clear on this that they prefer to have something happening.

geilebeer wrote:your op gave me a headache

Sorry about that. I'll change it to something more appropriate.

Arianya wrote:

How do we address button pressing as a result of Dead/bored players and admins caving into their demand.

Most events aren't spawned at deadchat's request.

And even if we ignore that part, button pressing is a natural part of stopping the round from becoming extended lite.

Personally I like extended, but the stance of most players is clear on this that they prefer to have something happening.

That's fair. Events are what make this game and my most memorable moments.

But comes a time and a place where extended is relaxed and fun after a succession of short unfun rounds.

Almost every admin wants that better reputation. They want to make the game more fun, but if every admin felt entitled to 2 events per day, we'd never have a normal round.

Save the events. Plan new ones. But please put effort.

Sometimes I want to chill after trampling over the antags. It doesn't mean I want to fight constantly.

Rounds should be interesting. Good admins know when to spice things up.
There is always one player that gets upset no matter what happens or what you do, even if it was an automatic random event.

Triggering 6 appendicitis attacks and 2 space vines is the only button pushing you'll ever need!

I personally think we should do more actual events and less """"events"""" that consist of rod memes or button smash

JMAD? MORE LIKE... MAD

Rounds exist to be interesting for everybody, not to feed your ego.

J_Madison wrote: I want my salt and a natural round end from my effective sec gameplay, not a low effort admin event because of ADHD dead players that don't understand dying is part of the game and next time don't die.

Then git gud and end the round instead of making half the server sit through an hour-long round where nothing exciting happens.

EDIT: To add to that, for the last goddamn time, there are no protagonists in this game. If the antagonists are dead or inactive, the round has no purpose.

InsaneHyena wrote:Rounds exist to be interesting for everybody, not to feed your ego.

I can't believe you just posted this.

DemonFiren wrote:

InsaneHyena wrote:Rounds exist to be interesting for everybody, not to feed your ego.

I can't believe you just posted this.

> It's "DemonFiren is shocked that he agrees with me" episode again

No.
I'm shocked that after all the angry meme spouting I generally see from you you post something that is reasonable and even halfway diplomatic.

J_Madison wrote:I want my salt and a natural round end from my effective sec gameplay

5 bucks says you don't ask for a shuttle call when you think you're done an effective job as sec. You've said yourself, you want extended after half the station is dead so you can bask in your station where nothing happens. That's selfish and bad.

It's a Jmad complaining about people playing the game other than him episode again

Atlanta-Ned wrote:

J_Madison wrote: I want my salt and a natural round end from my effective sec gameplay, not a low effort admin event because of ADHD dead players that don't understand dying is part of the game and next time don't die.

Then git gud and end the round instead of making half the server sit through an hour-long round where nothing exciting happens.

EDIT: To add to that, for the last goddamn time, there are no protagonists in this game. If the antagonists are dead or inactive, the round has no purpose.

I wish people would believe me when I told them admins are the reason rounds are shorter.

Does jmad even play

Kor wrote:

Atlanta-Ned wrote:

J_Madison wrote: I want my salt and a natural round end from my effective sec gameplay, not a low effort admin event because of ADHD dead players that don't understand dying is part of the game and next time don't die.

Then git gud and end the round instead of making half the server sit through an hour-long round where nothing exciting happens.

EDIT: To add to that, for the last goddamn time, there are no protagonists in this game. If the antagonists are dead or inactive, the round has no purpose.

I wish people would believe me when I told them admins are the reason rounds are shorter.

Considering we've been understaffed and the servers are own their own I'd probably say no and wouldn't believe you. The game, at least for this codebase, is pretty much designed for rounds that last up to an hour or less. Anytime it goes over that it's extremely lowpop with less than 10 people actively playing or maybe an edge case where things lined up that a group managed to find something interesting for the majority to be involved in.

Also this thread is a joke as one incident the OP was not involved in spawned it. The majority time the round goes it's own natural course with hardly anything being done by an admin to really impact it.

time to dust this off again

Still worth a kek.

Kor wrote:I wish people would believe me when I told them admins are the reason rounds are shorter.

I believe you. When I was a player it used to bug the hell out of me that during certain times of day on Basil any round that went longer than an hour seemed to be bombarded by admin made threat after admin threat, regardless of the crew being bored or having fun. No idea if it was the same case for Sybil since I rarely played or observed there at the time.

Owegno wrote:

Kor wrote:I wish people would believe me when I told them admins are the reason rounds are shorter.

I believe you. When I was a player it used to bug the hell out of me that during certain times of day on Basil any round that went longer than an hour seemed to be bombarded by admin made threat after admin threat, regardless of the crew being bored or having fun. No idea if it was the same case for Sybil since I rarely played or observed there at the time.

I believe Sybil functioned off the 30 minute rule. If nothing major or impactful had happened by 25-30 minutes, buttons moved the round forward.

Since we are talking about round lenght, cortesy of atlanta-ned:

https://atlantaned.space/newSS13tools/t ... length.pdf

I believe it is from both servers.

lzimann wrote:Since we are talking about round lenght, cortesy of atlanta-ned:

https://atlantaned.space/newSS13tools/t ... length.pdf

I believe it is from both servers.

Someone needs some excel skills

Most of the grieffy stuff isn't even admin involved, it's random event RNG screwing you over.

I have only once ever demanded natural antags do something in the round, and this was after the hour mark anyways.

If anything, the rules that allow you to have freedom to ruin the station as you please as antag is way more destructive to average round length than the round-length-altering admin interference.

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:Most of the grieffy stuff isn't even admin involved, it's random event RNG screwing you over.

This. You have no idea how often this fucking thing fires and completely fucks over a round with aliens/swarmers or a metor storm. The weighting and timing of half the events seem to chosen arbitrarily and need to be reevaluated.

Atlanta-Ned wrote: EDIT: To add to that, for the last goddamn time, there are no protagonists in this game. If the antagonists are dead or inactive, the round has no purpose.

I wish more admins saw it that way. There are very few rounds that can find a purpose independent of conflict between players, and those rounds take a very driven leader with a novel and creative idea... given that happens almost never, admins should not hesitate to wrap up rounds that have ceased to provide conflict or provide a new conflict that can give the round renewed purpose. I

It's all about balance, but given that our poll last year had players support more events, I'd say there's nothing wrong with more admins trying to make a round more interesting.

Oldman Robustin wrote:

Atlanta-Ned wrote: EDIT: To add to that, for the last goddamn time, there are no protagonists in this game. If the antagonists are dead or inactive, the round has no purpose.

I wish more admins saw it that way. There are very few rounds that can find a purpose independent of conflict between players, and those rounds take a very driven leader with a novel and creative idea... given that happens almost never, admins should not hesitate to wrap up rounds that have ceased to provide conflict or provide a new conflict that can give the round renewed purpose. I

It's all about balance, but given that our poll last year had players support more events, I'd say there's nothing wrong with more admins trying to make a round more interesting.

One of the best rounds i ever had was a 3 hour round where i was captain. I didn't allow shuttle call because the situations were all containable and we managed it every time. But the admins had things happening that made the round interesting. We had traitors then xenos then nuke ops declaring war and coming for the disk. The nuke ops team was a team of 10 too. We killed all the nuke ops. We beat them all. After the ops showed up i called the shuttle and we had a great end to the conflict.

Used x-ray lasers to kill all the xenos. With the ops i recall the sec force got out batons and beat them to shit. Even though some had dub eblades


Also

>Got onto shuttle
>Medal of Valor spawned for me

Yea, adding conflict to the round doesn't mean forcing it to end. Sometimes that's inevitable but if someone wants to rise to the occasion then more power to them.

Atlanta-Ned wrote:where's the outrage

I let him kill zombies with the var edited basketball too, great times.

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:

Atlanta-Ned wrote:where's the outrage

I let him kill zombies with the var edited basketball too, great times.

I have fond memories of var-edit bike horns.

I do not see this as a problem. It adds unexpected surprised and events. People are too stuck in their 'one round one antag' ways. They just one exactly one thing to happen, and anything that adds to the round or interferes with sec vs antag vs crew is rejected and reviled. Do not drain all the spice out of things!

Gun Hog wrote:I do not see this as a problem. It adds unexpected surprised and events. People are too stuck in their 'one round one antag' ways. They just one exactly one thing to happen, and anything that adds to the round or interferes with sec vs antag vs crew is rejected and reviled. Do not drain all the spice out of things!

This is a lot of it. Its part of why I cringe every time I see the crew "oh, its <antag type here>" and then proceed to throw everything out the window. A bit of unpredictability makes it less worthwhile to start metaguessing the roundtype every round.

Yeah. I agree, it's pretty unexpected when that one hour mark goes by and some really silly stuff happens that forces a shuttle.
Nobody ever sees it coming. When people ask why, it's often. "Well, rounds been going on too long.". But it's all well kept from us.
I remember back before shifts were held to some silly "One hour only" quota. Things actually got done, people could actually interact and enjoy the RP aspect on the side.

Game's kind of devolved to nothing but antags trying to murder everyone, and succeeding, or security trying to stop them, and succeeding. And when there's finally any semblance of peace, it just starts all over again. Or else... God forbid anyone tries to come up with something interesting to do as an alternative. It's kind of like Dark Soul's Abyss Watchers, only less interesting... Very rarely will anyone succeed in being able to break the cycle without it being shat on.
Arguably that's just the way this community and codebase has been going for quite some time, though. So i doubt that's much of a shocker.

Pascal125 wrote:Game's kind of devolved to nothing but antags trying to murder everyone, and succeeding, or security trying to stop them, and succeeding. And when there's finally any semblance of peace, it just starts all over again. Or else... God forbid anyone tries to come up with something interesting to do as an alternative. It's kind of like Dark Soul's Abyss Watchers, only less interesting... Very rarely will anyone succeed in being able to break the cycle without it being shat on.
Arguably that's just the way this community and codebase has been going for quite some time, though. So i doubt that's much of a shocker.

I think the admins mainly do it because that's what the majority of players seem to want. I don't often see interesting gimmicks or whatever from players that have a significant impact on the round, and I think it kinda sucks, but I'm not sure if you can "fix" that

Having a significant impact on the round with your gimmick usually leads to adminhelping.

Kor wrote:Having a significant impact on the round with your gimmick usually leads to adminhelping.

Poor wording on my part, I mean "beyond dressing up as a pirate and talking like one" gimmicks don't count

cedarbridge wrote:

Gun Hog wrote:I do not see this as a problem. It adds unexpected surprised and events. People are too stuck in their 'one round one antag' ways. They just one exactly one thing to happen, and anything that adds to the round or interferes with sec vs antag vs crew is rejected and reviled. Do not drain all the spice out of things!

This is a lot of it. Its part of why I cringe every time I see the crew "oh, its <antag type here>" and then proceed to throw everything out the window. A bit of unpredictability makes it less worthwhile to start metaguessing the roundtype every round.

Shit like this makes me want to tc trade for the war ops announcement and no war ops just so people go "CONFIRMED OPS ROUND" and assume there's no regular traitors

Screemonster wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

Gun Hog wrote:I do not see this as a problem. It adds unexpected surprised and events. People are too stuck in their 'one round one antag' ways. They just one exactly one thing to happen, and anything that adds to the round or interferes with sec vs antag vs crew is rejected and reviled. Do not drain all the spice out of things!

This is a lot of it. Its part of why I cringe every time I see the crew "oh, its <antag type here>" and then proceed to throw everything out the window. A bit of unpredictability makes it less worthwhile to start metaguessing the roundtype every round.

Shit like this makes me want to tc trade for the war ops announcement and no war ops just so people go "CONFIRMED OPS ROUND" and assume there's no regular traitors

tfw nobody emags the comms terminal to ask the syndicats for assistance like this

Really I wouldn't mind if we're warned that the event is going to devolve into button pressing right before the buttons get pressed.

But more importantly, I would prefer if admins actually put effort into their events rather than smacking buttons together. That's all I'll ask for.

If you don't have a good event plans for when someone ruins the round, don't button press at all please.

J_Madison wrote:Really I wouldn't mind if we're warned that the event is going to devolve into button pressing right before the buttons get pressed.

But more importantly, I would prefer if admins actually put effort into their events rather than smacking buttons together. That's all I'll ask for.

If you don't have a good event plans for when someone ruins the round, don't button press at all please.

ok

Qbopper wrote:

Kor wrote:Having a significant impact on the round with your gimmick usually leads to adminhelping.

Poor wording on my part, I mean "beyond dressing up as a pirate and talking like one" gimmicks don't count

Can you name the kind of gimmick you'd like to see then?

I could ramble on about how all of the most memorable rounds I've seen involved rulebreaking that the admins let slide, and the various gimmicks players have run, but I'm sure everyones read my thoughts on that before by now.

Screemonster wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

Gun Hog wrote:I do not see this as a problem. It adds unexpected surprised and events. People are too stuck in their 'one round one antag' ways. They just one exactly one thing to happen, and anything that adds to the round or interferes with sec vs antag vs crew is rejected and reviled. Do not drain all the spice out of things!

This is a lot of it. Its part of why I cringe every time I see the crew "oh, its <antag type here>" and then proceed to throw everything out the window. A bit of unpredictability makes it less worthwhile to start metaguessing the roundtype every round.

Shit like this makes me want to tc trade for the war ops announcement and no war ops just so people go "CONFIRMED OPS ROUND" and assume there's no regular traitors

honestly I would be fucking delighted if someone asked to TC trade for this and not the millionth "make me a revenant xeno slaughter demon pls!"

bandit wrote:

Screemonster wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

Gun Hog wrote:I do not see this as a problem. It adds unexpected surprised and events. People are too stuck in their 'one round one antag' ways. They just one exactly one thing to happen, and anything that adds to the round or interferes with sec vs antag vs crew is rejected and reviled. Do not drain all the spice out of things!

This is a lot of it. Its part of why I cringe every time I see the crew "oh, its <antag type here>" and then proceed to throw everything out the window. A bit of unpredictability makes it less worthwhile to start metaguessing the roundtype every round.

Shit like this makes me want to tc trade for the war ops announcement and no war ops just so people go "CONFIRMED OPS ROUND" and assume there's no regular traitors

honestly I would be fucking delighted if someone asked to TC trade for this and not the millionth "make me a revenant xeno slaughter demon pls!"

nope, almost exclusively that sort of thing

Trading for a war ops declaration is a terrible idea because it undermines trust in what is basically an OOC message (the entire point of war ops being you know its war ops)

Maybe if it happened literally every other round, but I don't see once or twice being that big of a deal.

Kor wrote:

Qbopper wrote:

Kor wrote:Having a significant impact on the round with your gimmick usually leads to adminhelping.

Poor wording on my part, I mean "beyond dressing up as a pirate and talking like one" gimmicks don't count

Can you name the kind of gimmick you'd like to see then?

I could ramble on about how all of the most memorable rounds I've seen involved rulebreaking that the admins let slide, and the various gimmicks players have run, but I'm sure everyones read my thoughts on that before by now.

No, because I'm a boring and uncreative dickhead unfortunately

I don't think you're boring and uncreative, I think you've just boxed yourself into a corner with an impossible set of requirements (impact the round so everyone notices, but not in a way that it upsets anyone out of 80 people).

There are lots of fun and creative things players can do if you're willing to bend the rules a bit.

But neither admin nor player events can work if you hold them to the standard of "didn't break a single regular rule or otherwise inconvenience anybody"

Have fun you lifeless corpses. If the station is drying out and the ghosts are getting rowdy, sorry one xenobio guy that wants to keep playing but it's time for swarmers to end this shit.