Re: Should certain jobs be merged?
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:21 pm
Bottom post of the previous page:
Don't take my snowflake gas role from meBottom post of the previous page:
Don't take my snowflake gas role from methere was a design doc for a medical rework floating around that sounded really good but it never came to be for some reasonBeeSting12 wrote:The real solution to doctors job being boring is making our medical system deadlier and changing the combat system but noone wants to touch that.
Its not a lazy copout. It is an idea that is precise and easy to implement. It increases traitor options, it DOES solve the problem of medicine being boring, because chemistry is FUN and applying what you make is FUN. making medicine harder/deadlier is a bad idea and only works on slow high RP servers.Qbopper wrote:nothing to do for most of the round? do you think doctors just sit next to a sleeper and wait for people to walk in? Sure, there are quiet parts of the round, but if you have "nothing to do for most of the round" you're just not bothering to actually play the gameCPTANT wrote:No doctor will always be a boring shitrole without something to do when there are no patients.Qbmax32 wrote:Instead of talking about how medical jobs should be merged we should be talking about how to fix medical
The merge isn't a bandaid, the merge is the right solution that solves the role of doctor having nothing to do for most of the round.
letting doctors jerk off with chem machines all round isn't a solution to medical being relatively simple and boring, it's another lazy copout that takes away from the actual player interaction side of the game so that we can have even more people sit in one room all game pushing buttons
I like how you just keep ignoring the counterpoints to your assertions and just keep soldiering forward repeating them as though they were objectively true by nature of you saying them. Are you going to actually address those points or nah?CPTANT wrote:Its not a lazy copout. It is an idea that is precise and easy to implement. It increases traitor options, it DOES solve the problem of medicine being boring, because chemistry is FUN and applying what you make is FUN. making medicine harder/deadlier is a bad idea and only works on slow high RP servers.Qbopper wrote:nothing to do for most of the round? do you think doctors just sit next to a sleeper and wait for people to walk in? Sure, there are quiet parts of the round, but if you have "nothing to do for most of the round" you're just not bothering to actually play the gameCPTANT wrote:No doctor will always be a boring shitrole without something to do when there are no patients.Qbmax32 wrote:Instead of talking about how medical jobs should be merged we should be talking about how to fix medical
The merge isn't a bandaid, the merge is the right solution that solves the role of doctor having nothing to do for most of the round.
letting doctors jerk off with chem machines all round isn't a solution to medical being relatively simple and boring, it's another lazy copout that takes away from the actual player interaction side of the game so that we can have even more people sit in one room all game pushing buttons
And the "make your own fun" meme is stupid and even then the doctor job is probably the worst at actually doing that.
I explained well enough why your points are weak.cedarbridge wrote:I like how you just keep ignoring the counterpoints to your assertions and just keep soldiering forward repeating them as though they were objectively true by nature of you saying them. Are you going to actually address those points or nah?CPTANT wrote:Its not a lazy copout. It is an idea that is precise and easy to implement. It increases traitor options, it DOES solve the problem of medicine being boring, because chemistry is FUN and applying what you make is FUN. making medicine harder/deadlier is a bad idea and only works on slow high RP servers.Qbopper wrote:nothing to do for most of the round? do you think doctors just sit next to a sleeper and wait for people to walk in? Sure, there are quiet parts of the round, but if you have "nothing to do for most of the round" you're just not bothering to actually play the gameCPTANT wrote:No doctor will always be a boring shitrole without something to do when there are no patients.Qbmax32 wrote:Instead of talking about how medical jobs should be merged we should be talking about how to fix medical
The merge isn't a bandaid, the merge is the right solution that solves the role of doctor having nothing to do for most of the round.
letting doctors jerk off with chem machines all round isn't a solution to medical being relatively simple and boring, it's another lazy copout that takes away from the actual player interaction side of the game so that we can have even more people sit in one room all game pushing buttons
And the "make your own fun" meme is stupid and even then the doctor job is probably the worst at actually doing that.
No you didn't. You said that chemistry is fun. That's not an argument. That's just an observation that chemist is a fun role. Its not a reason to merge another role into it.CPTANT wrote:I explained well enough why your points are weak.
are you going to reply with an actual argument or just insist you're right because chemistry is fun so therefore doctors should get chem accessCPTANT wrote:Its not a lazy copout. It is an idea that is precise
buzzword that doesn't actually mean anything
and easy to implement.
this is true but something being easy to add doesn't mean it's a good idea on its own
It increases traitor options,
i'd argue that finding ways to get to areas you don't have access to/use things you shouldn't be using is a key part of the gameplay for traitors
it DOES solve the problem of medicine being boring, because chemistry is FUN and applying what you make is FUN.
i know "not an argument" is a meme phrase but this is literally not an argument
how does giving doctors chemistry access fix the medical system? chemistry being fun is irrelevant, you're still using low effort chems/sleepers to fix people instantly with zero repercussions
making medicine harder/deadlier is a bad idea and only works on slow high RP servers.
it's the "high rp" strawman again, with a side of "doesn't explain why this thing is bad and just saying it's bad"
And the "make your own fun" meme is stupid and even then the doctor job is probably the worst at actually doing that.
not sure where this is coming from, you can define literally anything in ss13 as "making your own fun"
if you're talking about how I said doctors have no excuse for sitting in medbay all round, I don't mean going to the library and playing cards against humanity, I mean you can be using crew scanners/pinpointers and finding corpses/healing people outside medbay/providing on site reviving and heals if there's a threat like a blob, or like cedar said you can just deal with the fact that you're not going to be constantly in action at all times when you roll MD
The reason it works in High RP is that in high RP the pace of the game is slow, so you have plenty of time to perform surgery or whatever on everyone that gets injured. The reason it wont work for us is because when shit gets real half the station gets shot. Having elaborate procedures for treating those injuries will just lead to everyone dying.Qbopper wrote:are you going to reply with an actual argument or just insist you're right because chemistry is fun so therefore doctors should get chem accessCPTANT wrote:Its not a lazy copout. It is an idea that is precise
buzzword that doesn't actually mean anything
and easy to implement.
this is true but something being easy to add doesn't mean it's a good idea on its own
It increases traitor options,
i'd argue that finding ways to get to areas you don't have access to/use things you shouldn't be using is a key part of the gameplay for traitors
it DOES solve the problem of medicine being boring, because chemistry is FUN and applying what you make is FUN.
i know "not an argument" is a meme phrase but this is literally not an argument
how does giving doctors chemistry access fix the medical system? chemistry being fun is irrelevant, you're still using low effort chems/sleepers to fix people instantly with zero repercussions
making medicine harder/deadlier is a bad idea and only works on slow high RP servers.
it's the "high rp" strawman again, with a side of "doesn't explain why this thing is bad and just saying it's bad"
And the "make your own fun" meme is stupid and even then the doctor job is probably the worst at actually doing that.
not sure where this is coming from, you can define literally anything in ss13 as "making your own fun"
if you're talking about how I said doctors have no excuse for sitting in medbay all round, I don't mean going to the library and playing cards against humanity, I mean you can be using crew scanners/pinpointers and finding corpses/healing people outside medbay/providing on site reviving and heals if there's a threat like a blob, or like cedar said you can just deal with the fact that you're not going to be constantly in action at all times when you roll MD
And that thread is just a rehash of the "I wish there were more traitors using chem" (there are tons), with a dash or two of "I wish viro and genetics weren't instantly outed when their sub departments do things." which is dumb. Viro is already as strong or stronger than toxins at any stage of the game with a bit more RNG-based setup time. Genetics is already apparent in what they're doing because its really obvious who a hulk is or who has genetics powers or whose stuff is on the floor next to a genetics console.CPTANT wrote:Anyway I also made a thread explaining part of why the merge is a good thing 2 years ago:
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 67#p109667
Is this a serious post? Like I imagine every doctor having my deathmix and I cannot fathom that being enjoyable for anyoneCPTANT wrote:Good point for merging them, since more medbay traitor actions is a good thing.Lazengann wrote:Good pointExcessiveJMadison wrote: Also imagine every MD having access to lethal mixes instead of 2 people with giveaway colors lol.
i thought when you picked captain it made all the other "players" npcs???Nilons wrote:Let's just have 1 job with all access for everybody
Hold on it doesn't?Qbopper wrote:i thought when you picked captain it made all the other "players" npcs???Nilons wrote:Let's just have 1 job with all access for everybody
Lets have 9000 jobs with everyone having access to exactly one door.Nilons wrote:Let's just have 1 job with all access for everybody
The difference is that nobody is proposing we go in that direction. Just that we stay where we currently are.CPTANT wrote:Lets have 9000 jobs with everyone having access to exactly one door.Nilons wrote:Let's just have 1 job with all access for everybody
Stupid hyperbole's go both ways.
The matter is that we are currently too far in that direction.TribeOfBeavers wrote:The difference is that nobody is proposing we go in that direction. Just that we stay where we currently are.CPTANT wrote:Lets have 9000 jobs with everyone having access to exactly one door.Nilons wrote:Let's just have 1 job with all access for everybody
Stupid hyperbole's go both ways.
Why do you think that? What would your ideal balance be?CPTANT wrote:The matter is that we are currently too far in that direction.TribeOfBeavers wrote:The difference is that nobody is proposing we go in that direction. Just that we stay where we currently are.CPTANT wrote:Lets have 9000 jobs with everyone having access to exactly one door.Nilons wrote:Let's just have 1 job with all access for everybody
Stupid hyperbole's go both ways.
Though the atmos feed pipe to the engine doesn't require engineering access. The CE can pretty easily coordinate the engineers and atmos techs to set up an optimal mix through the atmos feed pipe. This was, as I understand it, by design. Atmos makes a positive contribution to the engine, engineering does the actual direct management of the engine hardware, CE makes sure atmos isn't feeding them a bullshit mix that kills everyone.Oldman Robustin wrote:I'd be against this on most counts but I gotta say atmos techs not having access to an engine based entirely on atmos mechanics is pretty frustrating. I probably watch at least 5 SM's delaminate every week as an atmos tech that I COULD have fixed but screaming for the AI to open every fucking door every 30 seconds (and the AI never figures out how to use emergency access) is just awful.
get the ai to open it once, then get gloves and youll never have to ask againOldman Robustin wrote:I'd be against this on most counts but I gotta say atmos techs not having access to an engine based entirely on atmos mechanics is pretty frustrating. I probably watch at least 5 SM's delaminate every week as an atmos tech that I COULD have fixed but screaming for the AI to open every fucking door every 30 seconds (and the AI never figures out how to use emergency access) is just awful.
I lol'd.Takeguru wrote:Well clearly if doctors need injuries to heal
They should go make injuries happen